When Helpers Hurt Too With Morgan Hannaleck

1 00:00:00,233 --> 00:00:03,470 Have you ever wondered when you talk to a therapist 2 00:00:03,636 --> 00:00:07,107 and maybe you go to a session or maybe you are a therapist, 3 00:00:07,107 --> 00:00:10,510 have you ever wondered what is it like for them? 4 00:00:10,844 --> 00:00:12,812 Because there are people too, right? 5 00:00:12,812 --> 00:00:17,150 And so their moms that are dads and their sons and daughters, 6 00:00:17,150 --> 00:00:22,188 and sometimes when they have a hard day, maybe they get into an argument 7 00:00:22,188 --> 00:00:26,026 or maybe something really terrible happened and it weighs on them. 8 00:00:26,192 --> 00:00:29,763 Have you ever wondered when helpless hurt? 9 00:00:29,963 --> 00:00:31,831 How do they work through it? 10 00:00:31,831 --> 00:00:32,999 Have you thought about that? 11 00:00:32,999 --> 00:00:36,669 Well, in today's episode, it's when helpers hurt, too. 12 00:00:36,903 --> 00:00:39,939 With Morgan, Hanna, Luke coming right up. 13 00:00:40,740 --> 00:00:43,943 Oh, don't worry about today. 14 00:00:44,244 --> 00:00:46,479 Or things we cannot change. 15 00:00:46,746 --> 00:00:49,716 It's over the past. We can here. 16 00:00:49,983 --> 00:00:51,518 Welcome to the Mental Health Today's show. 17 00:00:51,518 --> 00:00:54,521 My name is John Cordray and I am a licensed therapist 18 00:00:54,521 --> 00:00:56,222 and the host of this show. 19 00:00:56,222 --> 00:00:58,391 And I am so happy that you here today. 20 00:00:58,858 --> 00:01:00,427 I appreciate you so much. 21 00:01:00,427 --> 00:01:03,763 And I know that you are listening to this 22 00:01:03,763 --> 00:01:06,766 maybe for the first time or maybe it's not the first time. 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,134 Been around for a while. 24 00:01:08,134 --> 00:01:12,072 I appreciate you and I know we all come from different walks of life 25 00:01:12,672 --> 00:01:15,108 and from all over the world. 26 00:01:15,108 --> 00:01:17,444 Some of you are in a different world 27 00:01:17,977 --> 00:01:21,614 and different world in a different part of the world right now. 28 00:01:21,948 --> 00:01:25,285 And some of you are struggling right now. 29 00:01:26,519 --> 00:01:29,823 And maybe this title really is enticing to you. 30 00:01:29,823 --> 00:01:34,160 And I want to speak to those of you who are helpers, 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,929 whether you're a therapist or not. 32 00:01:35,929 --> 00:01:38,331 Maybe maybe you're a caregiver and you're hurting 33 00:01:38,998 --> 00:01:43,002 and you are really trying your best to help other people, 34 00:01:43,002 --> 00:01:46,039 but then you need someone to help you. 35 00:01:46,473 --> 00:01:47,774 And it's hard to do both. 36 00:01:47,774 --> 00:01:50,343 It's hard to help when you need help yourself. 37 00:01:50,543 --> 00:01:51,311 Well, today 38 00:01:51,311 --> 00:01:56,082 we're going to be talking with Morgan, and Morgan is a mental health speaker. 39 00:01:56,583 --> 00:01:58,785 She's an author and a therapist. 40 00:01:58,785 --> 00:02:03,022 And she's going to be talking about overcoming her own mental illness. 41 00:02:03,022 --> 00:02:08,795 And that has inspired her to help others and let them know they aren't alone. 42 00:02:09,229 --> 00:02:13,733 I love that Morgan's passion has led her to some beautiful people 43 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:17,103 and places, and she wants to share that with the world. 44 00:02:17,504 --> 00:02:18,938 Oh, that's awesome. 45 00:02:18,938 --> 00:02:20,673 Morgan, I am so happy you're here. 46 00:02:20,673 --> 00:02:22,108 Welcome to the show. 47 00:02:22,108 --> 00:02:24,811 Thanks so much, John. Great to be here. 48 00:02:24,811 --> 00:02:27,313 Well, I'm really excited about this 49 00:02:27,313 --> 00:02:30,984 because this is a topic that I don't think really gets talked about a lot. 50 00:02:31,117 --> 00:02:35,488 And that is when helpers hurt to because they can't 51 00:02:35,788 --> 00:02:41,161 they can't necessarily just block out their pain, their emotional pain, 52 00:02:41,494 --> 00:02:45,565 and they can't always just say, well, I'm just not going in the work today 53 00:02:45,565 --> 00:02:46,766 because they're helpers. 54 00:02:46,766 --> 00:02:50,670 And so they have a lot of people that they're helping and so sometimes 55 00:02:50,670 --> 00:02:54,507 they carry that burden on them with them into the session. 56 00:02:54,507 --> 00:02:56,242 Let's say, let's say maybe there's a therapist 57 00:02:56,242 --> 00:02:59,579 and they carried it into the session and that's hard to hold on to that 58 00:03:00,046 --> 00:03:03,483 while trying to be present for their clients. 59 00:03:03,783 --> 00:03:05,051 And that can be tough. 60 00:03:05,051 --> 00:03:08,588 And so before we get into that, I would love to kind of know 61 00:03:08,588 --> 00:03:10,690 your story, kind of your back story. 62 00:03:10,690 --> 00:03:15,161 And how did you become involved in this in the first place? 63 00:03:16,062 --> 00:03:16,896 Yeah. 64 00:03:16,896 --> 00:03:22,368 So when I was an adolescent, I had developed an eating disorder 65 00:03:22,702 --> 00:03:26,372 and what a company that eating disorder was depression 66 00:03:26,372 --> 00:03:29,542 and anxiety and some OCD symptoms. 67 00:03:29,542 --> 00:03:31,344 So I was going through this 68 00:03:31,344 --> 00:03:35,014 eating disorder and I got to the point where it almost took my life away 69 00:03:35,315 --> 00:03:40,353 and I had to go to a residential treatment center and begin to heal and recover. 70 00:03:40,353 --> 00:03:42,522 And when I got out of that center, 71 00:03:42,522 --> 00:03:46,292 I was kind of in the mindset that I was like, I was done. 72 00:03:46,292 --> 00:03:50,330 And I learned pretty quickly with time that that wasn't something that I was 73 00:03:50,663 --> 00:03:55,134 ever going to be done with, and that being able to heal 74 00:03:55,134 --> 00:03:58,738 and stay healed is something that I always had to put a conscious effort into. 75 00:03:59,138 --> 00:04:05,011 And as time went by and I've interacted with different people that have helped me 76 00:04:05,011 --> 00:04:10,516 heal and also healed, I just saw so much of value within that profession. 77 00:04:10,516 --> 00:04:15,121 And I learned pretty quickly that because I understood so much 78 00:04:15,121 --> 00:04:18,925 what it was like to be in these steps of pain, that I also had 79 00:04:18,925 --> 00:04:22,428 the potential to help people get out of those depths of pain as well. 80 00:04:22,829 --> 00:04:25,231 So I think just going through that experience 81 00:04:25,231 --> 00:04:29,569 and it being such a long and heavy road really just helped me 82 00:04:29,902 --> 00:04:33,373 want to become someone that could help other people get out of that place. 83 00:04:34,340 --> 00:04:34,807 Well, I think 84 00:04:34,807 --> 00:04:37,944 that's a great, very, very great point that you make. 85 00:04:37,944 --> 00:04:43,583 And something I maybe a lot of people don't realize that a lot of therapists 86 00:04:43,583 --> 00:04:47,887 and a lot of people in the mental health profession, they don't always they don't 87 00:04:47,887 --> 00:04:51,057 necessarily wake up and say one day, oh, I want to become a therapist. 88 00:04:51,090 --> 00:04:54,961 That's usually an event that happened to them themselves. 89 00:04:54,961 --> 00:04:58,264 And either their pain that they want to help others. 90 00:04:58,498 --> 00:05:01,200 And so I think what you had just mentioned, 91 00:05:01,534 --> 00:05:06,372 you had a very difficult adolescence and to the point where you had to go 92 00:05:06,372 --> 00:05:11,778 to a residential treatment center and out of your pain and your suffering, 93 00:05:12,645 --> 00:05:16,049 you want to use that for good and you want to help others 94 00:05:16,049 --> 00:05:18,484 because you know what it's like to go through that. 95 00:05:18,818 --> 00:05:24,957 And so can you tell me a little bit about during that time right before 96 00:05:25,725 --> 00:05:28,661 you realized that maybe you need to go to a residential 97 00:05:28,761 --> 00:05:30,863 treatment center with your idea? 98 00:05:30,863 --> 00:05:34,934 Did you want to go or whether someone else's idea and he didn't want to go? 99 00:05:36,002 --> 00:05:37,170 That's a very good question. 100 00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:40,840 I want to say it was a mix of the two because, you know, 101 00:05:40,973 --> 00:05:45,211 I knew that I had a problem and there was a huge part of me 102 00:05:45,211 --> 00:05:48,781 that really wanted to face it, because that's all I really knew. 103 00:05:49,048 --> 00:05:53,786 And I was quite fearful of what life would be like without having the things 104 00:05:53,786 --> 00:05:57,890 like my eating disorder, because in a way it gave me this false sense of security. 105 00:05:58,324 --> 00:06:00,860 So a huge part of me did want to stay sick, but 106 00:06:01,194 --> 00:06:05,131 there was one day where I just felt like I couldn't take it anymore. 107 00:06:05,131 --> 00:06:09,602 And a very small percentage of me spoke out to my parents, actually. 108 00:06:09,969 --> 00:06:12,071 And immediately I did want to take that all back. 109 00:06:12,071 --> 00:06:14,273 But at that point I couldn't take it back. 110 00:06:14,273 --> 00:06:17,810 And I'm lucky enough to have these parents that care so much and want to help me 111 00:06:17,810 --> 00:06:19,479 find the resources I needed. 112 00:06:19,479 --> 00:06:23,049 So at that point, it was kind of like, you know, I wanted to take it back. 113 00:06:23,049 --> 00:06:27,220 And a huge part of me wanted to say sick, but that small part of me that had about 114 00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:31,257 3 seconds of courage already spoke out and already got the ball rolling for myself. 115 00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:34,093 So it was a mix of the two, I'd say, Hmm. 116 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:35,027 Oh, that's good. 117 00:06:35,027 --> 00:06:38,431 Okay, so then you decide, okay, I want to get help. 118 00:06:38,431 --> 00:06:40,633 I want to say something to my parents. 119 00:06:40,633 --> 00:06:43,035 It was out there, right? You couldn't take it back. 120 00:06:43,035 --> 00:06:45,972 And your parents said, okay, great, 121 00:06:45,972 --> 00:06:48,574 Let's let's find a place for you. 122 00:06:49,208 --> 00:06:52,645 And when when you heard that it was going to be a residential treatment 123 00:06:52,645 --> 00:06:54,881 center, well, what did you think about that? 124 00:06:56,315 --> 00:06:58,951 I mean, right away, I kind of wanted to downplay everything 125 00:06:59,252 --> 00:07:05,057 because the idea of not living in my home and having to leave everything 126 00:07:05,057 --> 00:07:09,262 like school and my friends was really terrifying because I you know, 127 00:07:09,595 --> 00:07:12,465 we all love comfort and our things that make us feel comfortable. 128 00:07:12,465 --> 00:07:16,736 And just the idea of facing this eating disorder and also doing it away 129 00:07:16,936 --> 00:07:20,706 from everything that I knew and that was comfortable was really, really terrifying. 130 00:07:21,374 --> 00:07:24,177 So I think a big part of me wanted to downplay it 131 00:07:24,177 --> 00:07:28,047 and try to convince the center that I could get away with less care. 132 00:07:28,581 --> 00:07:29,282 Lucky for me, 133 00:07:29,282 --> 00:07:32,018 I didn't think I was lucky at the time, but lucky for me they didn't budge. 134 00:07:32,685 --> 00:07:36,789 Well, you probably weren't the the only one that tried to do that. 135 00:07:37,323 --> 00:07:37,657 Right. 136 00:07:37,657 --> 00:07:41,227 So when you realized, okay, this is getting real, 137 00:07:41,227 --> 00:07:44,263 and then it's like, I don't know if I want to do this. 138 00:07:44,730 --> 00:07:46,999 Maybe it's not so bad after all. 139 00:07:46,999 --> 00:07:49,735 But the treatment center knew better. 140 00:07:50,036 --> 00:07:52,205 And they said, Nope, we want you to come. 141 00:07:52,205 --> 00:07:53,940 And so you went. 142 00:07:53,940 --> 00:07:56,709 And did you have what kind of experience did you have? 143 00:07:56,709 --> 00:08:01,681 Was it a positive experience or was it not really a positive experience? 144 00:08:02,982 --> 00:08:06,152 For the most part, it was pretty positive. 145 00:08:06,686 --> 00:08:08,821 Just in terms of the care that I got. 146 00:08:09,121 --> 00:08:13,059 I think that what was negative was inevitably 147 00:08:13,059 --> 00:08:15,761 just having to face all these demons head on. 148 00:08:16,095 --> 00:08:20,166 I don't think that's honestly ever really that much of a positive experience. 149 00:08:20,166 --> 00:08:24,337 But I think what made it positive was that as I'm in the center, 150 00:08:24,704 --> 00:08:28,140 I started to gain a little bit of life back because I wasn't eating. 151 00:08:28,140 --> 00:08:30,977 I wasn't really isolating, I wasn't really interacting with people. 152 00:08:31,277 --> 00:08:34,647 So as I'm eating regular meals and I'm going to these groups 153 00:08:34,647 --> 00:08:38,518 and I'm going to therapy sessions and really starting to kind of release 154 00:08:38,518 --> 00:08:40,419 everything that I pushed down inside of me 155 00:08:40,419 --> 00:08:43,289 and suppress all of those emotions kind of came to the surface. 156 00:08:43,623 --> 00:08:47,527 I started to feel a little bit more alive and I got proper medication. 157 00:08:47,527 --> 00:08:49,729 I started to realize that I had the capacity 158 00:08:49,729 --> 00:08:51,831 to make these connections with other people. 159 00:08:51,831 --> 00:08:55,268 And I think the life that I gained a little bit each day 160 00:08:55,268 --> 00:09:00,873 kind of made me want to feel more ready and motivated to keep gaining more 161 00:09:00,873 --> 00:09:03,276 and more of that life. So it was it was bittersweet 162 00:09:03,276 --> 00:09:05,444 in a lot of ways, but I would say overall positive. 163 00:09:06,312 --> 00:09:11,217 Well, and you you said you were kind of forced to face your demons. 164 00:09:11,417 --> 00:09:15,087 And that's scary for anybody who wants to do that. 165 00:09:15,121 --> 00:09:16,556 That's hard. 166 00:09:16,589 --> 00:09:18,691 And yet you were forced to do it. 167 00:09:18,691 --> 00:09:22,728 You couldn't leave and you were there, but you decided something in. 168 00:09:22,728 --> 00:09:25,131 You decided, you know what, I'm here. 169 00:09:25,531 --> 00:09:27,133 There's no turning back. 170 00:09:27,133 --> 00:09:29,402 And whether I like it or not, I'm here. 171 00:09:29,435 --> 00:09:31,170 And it's hard. 172 00:09:31,170 --> 00:09:33,973 But I've got to get the help because I'm hurting. 173 00:09:34,941 --> 00:09:37,243 And so you stayed in. 174 00:09:37,243 --> 00:09:42,081 You got better, and eventually you left the residential treatment center. 175 00:09:42,848 --> 00:09:43,983 And then what? 176 00:09:43,983 --> 00:09:48,387 Like, how did then did you turn that into helping others? 177 00:09:49,622 --> 00:09:54,060 Yeah, well, I mean, you know, when I left, obviously I wasn't entirely cured. 178 00:09:54,093 --> 00:09:58,030 I was going back to the exact same life, the exact same circumstances, 179 00:09:58,030 --> 00:09:59,565 school, friends, family. 180 00:09:59,565 --> 00:10:03,069 So I think the big question was, how was I supposed to get better 181 00:10:03,069 --> 00:10:05,371 and stay better in this world? But I got so sick in. 182 00:10:05,805 --> 00:10:09,775 And I think for me, that's when I had to realize that recovery 183 00:10:09,775 --> 00:10:11,277 was really about stamina. 184 00:10:11,277 --> 00:10:14,046 And I had to wake up every day and consciously choose to do that 185 00:10:14,046 --> 00:10:16,315 because no one else was going to do it for me. 186 00:10:16,315 --> 00:10:21,287 And the more I did that and the longer I did it for and came to a full recovery, 187 00:10:21,587 --> 00:10:25,591 the more I started to get older and also come to college 188 00:10:25,591 --> 00:10:29,095 and have to start really thinking about what I wanted to do with my career. 189 00:10:29,629 --> 00:10:34,400 And through that exploration, I tried a few different things. 190 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,802 I was actually a personal trainer for a little while. 191 00:10:36,802 --> 00:10:41,407 My undergraduate degrees in exercise science, but something in psychology 192 00:10:41,407 --> 00:10:45,511 always lit up the spark in me that nothing else really ever could. 193 00:10:45,845 --> 00:10:46,712 And just 194 00:10:48,180 --> 00:10:51,150 seeing people struggle and feeling this deep 195 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:55,121 empathy and compassion for them just didn't match anything else. 196 00:10:55,121 --> 00:10:57,957 In all of the other career fields that I had really tried. 197 00:10:57,990 --> 00:11:01,360 So I think that's just it was a different feeling 198 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,663 when it came to psychology and helping other people. 199 00:11:04,463 --> 00:11:08,768 So you're in college and you're looking as are you looking at this point 200 00:11:09,201 --> 00:11:11,737 a major what to pursue or 201 00:11:12,038 --> 00:11:14,607 when did you decide to pursue psychology? 202 00:11:14,974 --> 00:11:18,978 Yeah, so like I said, it was in my undergraduate for science 203 00:11:18,978 --> 00:11:23,182 and I graduated from that and I was working part time as a personal trainer. 204 00:11:23,516 --> 00:11:27,153 But actually in my hometown of Massachusetts, 205 00:11:27,153 --> 00:11:31,357 one of my best friends was working at a mental health center for youth, 206 00:11:31,824 --> 00:11:34,860 and they really needed another employee there. 207 00:11:35,194 --> 00:11:37,363 And I decided that I was going to help out. 208 00:11:37,663 --> 00:11:41,434 And as I did that, that's when I started to feel that spark I mentioned that 209 00:11:41,434 --> 00:11:44,770 just felt different than any other really career path I had tried. 210 00:11:45,271 --> 00:11:47,773 So the more I worked there, the more 211 00:11:47,773 --> 00:11:51,777 I just felt like this passion for and more I was just hungry to learn more. 212 00:11:52,111 --> 00:11:55,214 And eventually I quit all of the other jobs 213 00:11:55,214 --> 00:11:58,451 and just focused solely on this one job with youth. 214 00:11:58,851 --> 00:11:59,518 And then that's 215 00:11:59,518 --> 00:12:02,755 when I had decided that I was going to get my master's in social work. 216 00:12:03,155 --> 00:12:06,158 And as I was in my master's program, 217 00:12:06,158 --> 00:12:09,328 I was doing better in that program 218 00:12:09,328 --> 00:12:12,198 than I did in any other of my schooling and my entire life. 219 00:12:12,531 --> 00:12:14,066 I had a 4.0. 220 00:12:14,066 --> 00:12:17,169 I was just so excited and always happy to be going to class 221 00:12:17,169 --> 00:12:18,537 and learning new things. 222 00:12:18,537 --> 00:12:20,673 And it just felt so natural and so good. 223 00:12:20,673 --> 00:12:24,910 And I knew that that wasn't happening just because it was happening, 224 00:12:25,211 --> 00:12:26,112 because it was something 225 00:12:26,112 --> 00:12:29,148 that I was just so invested in and found so much interest in. 226 00:12:29,448 --> 00:12:34,153 And when I got to apply it and some of that one job with the kids 227 00:12:34,453 --> 00:12:37,890 and I later got some other job therapy roles when I got to apply it 228 00:12:37,890 --> 00:12:41,127 and actually see people start to get better 229 00:12:41,127 --> 00:12:45,564 just simply by us talking and the power of those words in those conversations 230 00:12:45,564 --> 00:12:49,468 is that just made me recognize this is the field that I belong. 231 00:12:51,003 --> 00:12:51,237 Well, 232 00:12:51,237 --> 00:12:54,273 that's a great story and how you use your 233 00:12:54,273 --> 00:12:57,743 your pain in your past to help others. 234 00:12:58,244 --> 00:13:01,847 But like you said, when you when you first left the treatment center, 235 00:13:01,847 --> 00:13:03,249 you weren't completely healed. 236 00:13:03,249 --> 00:13:06,318 You still had hurt in struggles. 237 00:13:06,318 --> 00:13:10,656 So when you started to help the kids in the mental health 238 00:13:11,023 --> 00:13:14,827 job role, were you still struggling at that time? 239 00:13:14,827 --> 00:13:17,496 Or maybe it was something else that you were struggling with? 240 00:13:18,631 --> 00:13:19,799 Yes, definitely. 241 00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:23,035 I think that although I do 242 00:13:24,136 --> 00:13:26,806 consider myself fully recovery from the eating disorder, 243 00:13:26,806 --> 00:13:32,878 I think the anxiety and depression tended to stick around throughout that recovery. 244 00:13:32,878 --> 00:13:35,614 And, you know, they would flare up every once in a while. 245 00:13:35,614 --> 00:13:38,951 So I would have moments of suffering throughout that. Yes. 246 00:13:39,752 --> 00:13:42,288 So you had to hold that that burden 247 00:13:42,688 --> 00:13:46,058 while you were helping the students that you were working with. 248 00:13:46,325 --> 00:13:48,160 How did you do that? 249 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,698 I think one of the biggest things for me was recognizing 250 00:13:52,698 --> 00:13:55,868 and accepting that therapies, arguments, too. 251 00:13:55,901 --> 00:14:00,072 And they're allowed to struggle and they're not expected to be perfect 252 00:14:00,072 --> 00:14:02,241 and then their mental health because no one is. 253 00:14:02,241 --> 00:14:06,278 So I think one of them was accepting that because I tend to be someone that 254 00:14:06,846 --> 00:14:10,316 can be hard on myself and have a lot of perfectionist tendencies. 255 00:14:10,649 --> 00:14:13,319 So I think it was also just recognizing 256 00:14:13,319 --> 00:14:16,288 that that was okay and that very normal 257 00:14:16,822 --> 00:14:21,427 and getting help on my own was also something that was totally okay 258 00:14:21,427 --> 00:14:23,863 and was going to make me better in my profession as well, 259 00:14:24,196 --> 00:14:26,232 because it's like, you know, you can't pour from that empty cup. 260 00:14:27,499 --> 00:14:28,801 Well, that's exactly right. 261 00:14:28,801 --> 00:14:34,173 And I think I think a lot of times when somebody goes to see a therapist, 262 00:14:34,173 --> 00:14:37,610 they sit down or nowadays it's on their computer. 263 00:14:38,244 --> 00:14:41,347 But when you talk to a therapist, a lot of times people think, well, 264 00:14:41,347 --> 00:14:43,515 they have it all together 265 00:14:43,515 --> 00:14:45,651 and they have all these tools. 266 00:14:45,651 --> 00:14:47,253 I don't have any tools. 267 00:14:47,253 --> 00:14:50,556 I'm I'm just have a lot of anxiety, have a lot of depression. 268 00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:53,792 But, you know, because, you know, clients come to us 269 00:14:53,792 --> 00:14:56,729 as therapists for for us to help them. 270 00:14:57,196 --> 00:15:00,232 And sometimes clients think that we have it all together. 271 00:15:00,232 --> 00:15:01,867 But what you're saying, 272 00:15:01,867 --> 00:15:05,104 we don't and you're exactly right, because we are humans, too. 273 00:15:05,571 --> 00:15:07,172 We are people as well. 274 00:15:07,172 --> 00:15:09,708 So it is a fine line as a balancing act. 275 00:15:09,842 --> 00:15:13,846 Sometimes when the helper themselves are hurting 276 00:15:14,179 --> 00:15:18,384 and they're trying to help people who are coming to them who are hurting. 277 00:15:18,918 --> 00:15:22,521 And it sometimes is a balancing act and sometimes it's learning 278 00:15:22,554 --> 00:15:26,325 to embrace the hurt and pain, like you were mentioning. 279 00:15:26,325 --> 00:15:30,462 MORGAN Trying to embrace that and recognize 280 00:15:30,462 --> 00:15:32,631 that, you know what, I'm not perfect. 281 00:15:32,631 --> 00:15:33,999 I'm struggling. 282 00:15:33,999 --> 00:15:37,937 But here I want to be present for my clients. 283 00:15:38,404 --> 00:15:42,274 And I think that can be a very, very good tool to be able to use 284 00:15:42,541 --> 00:15:45,511 to recognize, not to deny how we're feeling, 285 00:15:45,511 --> 00:15:48,614 but to recognize, you know what, I'm hurting. 286 00:15:49,014 --> 00:15:53,619 But my focus right now, right here, I need to focus on my clients. 287 00:15:53,619 --> 00:15:56,221 And so I think you brought up a really good point there. 288 00:15:57,389 --> 00:15:58,891 So so tell me a little 289 00:15:58,891 --> 00:16:01,994 bit about being now your mental health speaker. 290 00:16:01,994 --> 00:16:03,262 Tell me a little bit about that. 291 00:16:03,262 --> 00:16:04,930 You're an author as well. 292 00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:07,833 How did you get involved in that? 293 00:16:07,833 --> 00:16:11,904 Yeah, well, when it comes to the book itself, 294 00:16:12,071 --> 00:16:17,176 that actually happened because throughout my struggles 295 00:16:17,176 --> 00:16:20,679 as an adolescent, I was keeping journal entries and 296 00:16:21,213 --> 00:16:24,416 one day I looked back at them and I thought, wouldn't it be cool 297 00:16:24,416 --> 00:16:29,121 if I kind of turned this into a story, but also turned it into a story 298 00:16:29,121 --> 00:16:32,758 that showed recovery and kind of how I got there? 299 00:16:33,092 --> 00:16:37,396 So that's kind of how that came about, was wanting to turn that 300 00:16:37,396 --> 00:16:41,400 into something that could break stigma to show the realities and depths 301 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,005 of what that time of my life looks like and show story of recovery. 302 00:16:46,005 --> 00:16:49,708 And it kind of blood over into mental health speaking as well 303 00:16:50,342 --> 00:16:54,446 where I came across this wonderful company that had young adult speakers 304 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,583 go to schools and organizations and tell their stories. 305 00:16:57,883 --> 00:17:01,420 And when I came across this company, my first thought was, Wow, 306 00:17:01,420 --> 00:17:02,454 I have one of those. 307 00:17:02,454 --> 00:17:04,690 And I would love to to talk about it more. 308 00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:07,426 So I ended up training with them 309 00:17:07,426 --> 00:17:10,696 for quite some time to be able to put my story into something 310 00:17:10,996 --> 00:17:14,633 that was authentic and educational 311 00:17:15,067 --> 00:17:17,236 for students and organizations. 312 00:17:17,636 --> 00:17:19,838 And then I started to go and speak it. 313 00:17:21,407 --> 00:17:23,042 Wow. So you you 314 00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:26,912 went from struggling as an adolescent with an eating disorder, 315 00:17:26,912 --> 00:17:30,249 going to a treatment center, not really wanting to go. 316 00:17:30,249 --> 00:17:31,350 But you did. 317 00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:33,852 You had to face a lot of your demons. 318 00:17:33,852 --> 00:17:36,355 And that was hard. But you did. 319 00:17:36,355 --> 00:17:39,091 And then you came out of the treatment center 320 00:17:39,091 --> 00:17:41,794 not completely healed, but stronger. 321 00:17:41,794 --> 00:17:46,265 And then you went to school and then you went to work 322 00:17:46,265 --> 00:17:48,634 in a mental health company with kids. 323 00:17:49,401 --> 00:17:54,273 And then you went on to get your master's in social work, 324 00:17:54,273 --> 00:17:59,111 and then you went on and wrote a book and then became a mental health speaker. 325 00:17:59,411 --> 00:18:01,814 That is quite the journey. 326 00:18:01,814 --> 00:18:04,516 Definitely it is, Yeah. 327 00:18:04,516 --> 00:18:07,953 And through it all, it was out of your hurt and pain. 328 00:18:08,387 --> 00:18:09,121 Yeah. 329 00:18:09,521 --> 00:18:12,157 And I think that's what makes makes you 330 00:18:12,825 --> 00:18:15,894 a powerful therapist and a speaker and an author. 331 00:18:16,261 --> 00:18:17,763 So tell me a little bit about your book. 332 00:18:17,763 --> 00:18:18,764 I'm curious about this. 333 00:18:18,764 --> 00:18:21,233 What is you told us a little bit about it. 334 00:18:21,233 --> 00:18:22,401 What's the name of it? 335 00:18:22,401 --> 00:18:26,572 What's the title and where can people find it? 336 00:18:27,539 --> 00:18:30,476 So it is called Somber Suffocation. 337 00:18:30,476 --> 00:18:32,611 You can find it on Amazon. 338 00:18:34,046 --> 00:18:34,613 Okay. 339 00:18:34,613 --> 00:18:39,184 So if they just type in your name or can you say the title again? 340 00:18:39,885 --> 00:18:42,221 Yes. Somber suffocation. 341 00:18:42,221 --> 00:18:44,690 All right. Awesome. Thank you. 342 00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:47,493 So the journey, it's all about the journey. 343 00:18:47,493 --> 00:18:50,963 And every helper can talk about a journey. 344 00:18:50,963 --> 00:18:53,899 And most helpers, as I mentioned, 345 00:18:54,633 --> 00:18:57,336 have gone through some hurt of their own. 346 00:18:57,336 --> 00:19:01,740 And it's because of that her wanting to turn that her into something good. 347 00:19:02,441 --> 00:19:05,511 That's what makes helpers really empathetic. 348 00:19:05,711 --> 00:19:06,512 Don't you think 349 00:19:06,512 --> 00:19:10,449 that we can relate to other people's pain because we've experienced that ourselves? 350 00:19:11,049 --> 00:19:12,518 Absolutely. 351 00:19:12,518 --> 00:19:14,520 What do you think, Morgan? 352 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:15,087 What do you think? 353 00:19:15,087 --> 00:19:20,259 What are some other attributes that you would say for a helper who is hurting? 354 00:19:20,259 --> 00:19:23,595 What are some positive attributes that come from that? 355 00:19:23,595 --> 00:19:25,797 Because it's not all negative, it's not all bad. 356 00:19:25,797 --> 00:19:28,033 It's not a bad thing for helpers to hurt. 357 00:19:28,033 --> 00:19:29,902 It's just what they're going through. 358 00:19:29,902 --> 00:19:33,138 But what are some positive things that could come from that? 359 00:19:34,106 --> 00:19:34,706 Well, I think 360 00:19:34,706 --> 00:19:37,876 you kind of hit the nail on the head as well, and just recognizing that 361 00:19:38,143 --> 00:19:42,114 when you go through something like that, you have a deeper understanding. 362 00:19:42,281 --> 00:19:45,984 And I think that creates this whole other level of empathy. 363 00:19:46,451 --> 00:19:47,219 Oh, I'm sorry. 364 00:19:47,219 --> 00:19:49,388 No, no, you're exactly right. 365 00:19:49,388 --> 00:19:53,959 And yet so often even therapists can get into that trap of thinking, well, 366 00:19:54,126 --> 00:19:57,129 I shouldn't be hurting because I'm a therapist. 367 00:19:57,129 --> 00:20:01,233 I shouldn't be depressed because I'm a therapist or my spouse. 368 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,036 I should be able to handle my spouse's depression 369 00:20:04,303 --> 00:20:06,471 because I'm a therapist and yet I'm depressed. 370 00:20:07,406 --> 00:20:09,608 And there's that negativity. 371 00:20:09,608 --> 00:20:14,513 Even therapists can have about themselves if they're really hurting with a 372 00:20:14,546 --> 00:20:17,816 maybe a mental illness themselves or a loved one. 373 00:20:18,250 --> 00:20:20,152 And so that's a barrier. 374 00:20:20,152 --> 00:20:22,788 And and yet what you're saying is 375 00:20:22,788 --> 00:20:26,558 we want to not look at it as a as a downer or a barrier, 376 00:20:26,792 --> 00:20:32,931 but as a way to propel us to experience that deep empathy and that compassion. 377 00:20:32,931 --> 00:20:34,233 And it comes out, doesn't it? 378 00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:36,268 It comes out in the session. 379 00:20:36,268 --> 00:20:37,669 People can see that. 380 00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:39,571 Yes, absolutely. 381 00:20:39,571 --> 00:20:42,641 I mean, there have been times where, you know, I could see my client's 382 00:20:43,075 --> 00:20:46,478 eyes get watery and suddenly I could feel my face get hot. 383 00:20:47,112 --> 00:20:49,681 I could feel myself feeling it for them. Hmm. 384 00:20:50,182 --> 00:20:52,818 Well, I mean, I think that's that's a really interesting thing, 385 00:20:52,818 --> 00:20:54,620 because our bodies tend to take over. 386 00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:57,956 Our bodies tell us things that are that are going on. 387 00:20:58,123 --> 00:21:02,694 So tell me a little bit more about the mental health speaking part. 388 00:21:02,694 --> 00:21:07,232 You mentioned going into schools and what is it that you do? 389 00:21:07,232 --> 00:21:09,601 What is it that you talk about 390 00:21:09,601 --> 00:21:13,438 and do the students themselves when you go talk to them? 391 00:21:13,772 --> 00:21:16,241 Have you found other students coming up to you and 392 00:21:16,475 --> 00:21:18,644 and relating to what you have to talk about? 393 00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:21,046 Yeah, absolutely. 394 00:21:21,046 --> 00:21:26,818 So I've organized my presentation into kind of a timeline of my life 395 00:21:27,619 --> 00:21:30,222 where I talk about just being young and having 396 00:21:30,222 --> 00:21:33,558 these small scenes of self doubt kind of place in my head, 397 00:21:33,558 --> 00:21:37,896 but with time situations and circumstances kind of cause them to grow. 398 00:21:38,263 --> 00:21:41,800 I talk about what it's like to be in an abusive relationship 399 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,870 growing up, and then I talk about eating disorder. 400 00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:48,840 I talk about anxiety, depression, perfectionism. 401 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,642 I touch on self-harm, 402 00:21:50,642 --> 00:21:55,447 and then I talk about how all of that led to that day, where I told my parents 403 00:21:55,447 --> 00:21:59,017 that I really needed that help and how that brought me to that treatment center 404 00:21:59,251 --> 00:22:00,452 and kind of what I was telling you 405 00:22:00,452 --> 00:22:03,955 earlier, how, you know, being there was light and believing 406 00:22:03,955 --> 00:22:07,125 that was like and having to kind of keep up with that recovery. 407 00:22:07,125 --> 00:22:12,731 So I tell it in those sections so I can kind of hit on each point 408 00:22:12,731 --> 00:22:17,669 and explain a little bit about what each struggle was like. 409 00:22:18,003 --> 00:22:22,074 And then at the end, I leave time for a question and answer. 410 00:22:22,074 --> 00:22:26,578 And that's typically when a lot of kids will ask a lot of specific questions 411 00:22:26,578 --> 00:22:28,347 about how to help a friend 412 00:22:28,347 --> 00:22:30,215 if they're struggling, What I would recommend, 413 00:22:30,215 --> 00:22:34,486 and sometimes at the end also kids will come up and just let me know that 414 00:22:34,486 --> 00:22:36,455 that's something that they really resonated with 415 00:22:36,455 --> 00:22:39,391 and it makes them feel good that they're not alone. 416 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,626 Yeah, and you 417 00:22:41,626 --> 00:22:44,463 bring up a really good point, and that is you're not alone. 418 00:22:44,863 --> 00:22:49,468 And so whether you're a helper or maybe you're a client, 419 00:22:49,468 --> 00:22:50,602 you go see your therapist. 420 00:22:50,602 --> 00:22:53,271 Now you're wondering, is my therapist hurting? 421 00:22:53,572 --> 00:22:56,074 And very well could be. 422 00:22:56,074 --> 00:23:00,679 But now you can relate to and know and understand 423 00:23:00,679 --> 00:23:04,850 that even if the helper is hurting, they're still with you. 424 00:23:05,050 --> 00:23:07,319 There. They are embracing you. 425 00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:12,424 They're holding your pain while they're holding themselves, their pain. 426 00:23:13,058 --> 00:23:15,861 And it's really interesting that when you go and speak 427 00:23:15,861 --> 00:23:19,097 and the teenagers that were there listening to you, 428 00:23:19,097 --> 00:23:22,868 you were holding their pain even though you didn't even know them. 429 00:23:23,368 --> 00:23:27,305 And because you were speaking truth speaking your what 430 00:23:27,339 --> 00:23:29,608 your experiences, what you've gone through. 431 00:23:29,608 --> 00:23:33,612 And it resonated with a lot of those students, I'm sure. 432 00:23:33,812 --> 00:23:36,081 And that moment you are holding their pain 433 00:23:36,481 --> 00:23:39,885 that really resonated with them with a lot of them. 434 00:23:39,885 --> 00:23:43,722 And it probably you may even have students that really stand out. 435 00:23:44,189 --> 00:23:48,260 There might be someone that has reached out to you along the way 436 00:23:48,693 --> 00:23:53,298 and they really were impacted by what you had to say. 437 00:23:53,698 --> 00:23:56,101 So I think it's really interesting. 438 00:23:56,134 --> 00:23:59,671 MORGAN You still have a lot of years left, don't you? 439 00:24:00,172 --> 00:24:02,507 Yes. Your journey is not over. 440 00:24:03,542 --> 00:24:05,811 And in some ways it's just beginning. 441 00:24:06,511 --> 00:24:08,246 And it just started rough. 442 00:24:08,246 --> 00:24:11,750 It started with a lot of hurt and a lot of pain 443 00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:15,120 and I'm sure a lot that we didn't cover in our episode. 444 00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:19,257 But when you look at that and you instead of saying 445 00:24:19,291 --> 00:24:23,261 all these things happen to me and there must be something wrong with me 446 00:24:23,695 --> 00:24:29,334 instead of thinking or believing that you can say and you are saying that 447 00:24:29,334 --> 00:24:35,340 those things did happen to me, I was affected, it hurt, it was painful. 448 00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:37,509 I would never want to go through it again. 449 00:24:38,076 --> 00:24:41,513 But I'm stronger now because of it. 450 00:24:41,513 --> 00:24:45,851 And I have resilience and grit, and now I can teach that in a way 451 00:24:45,851 --> 00:24:50,889 that a textbook or a master's program would ever be able to teach you. 452 00:24:50,889 --> 00:24:52,090 You lived it? 453 00:24:52,324 --> 00:24:53,725 Absolutely. Yeah. 454 00:24:53,725 --> 00:24:58,363 And that empathy, that power of compassion that comes through. 455 00:24:58,830 --> 00:25:03,301 And so you are just started your journey, which is great. 456 00:25:03,301 --> 00:25:08,073 And I'm sure you're going to continue to speak being speaker. 457 00:25:08,073 --> 00:25:10,675 And who knows, you might write another book. 458 00:25:11,710 --> 00:25:14,412 Tell me a little bit about what you're doing now. 459 00:25:14,412 --> 00:25:16,815 What is it that you're currently doing? 460 00:25:16,815 --> 00:25:20,352 Yeah, so I kind of wear multiple hats, 461 00:25:20,352 --> 00:25:24,322 so I'm doing some part time therapy work and I 462 00:25:24,322 --> 00:25:28,827 am also the regional director of that speaking company that I mentioned. 463 00:25:28,827 --> 00:25:31,563 It's called Minding Your Mind for California. 464 00:25:31,563 --> 00:25:35,033 We just opened up an office here, so I've been getting these presentations 465 00:25:35,033 --> 00:25:38,537 into schools out here too, so I'm working on expanding that. 466 00:25:38,537 --> 00:25:41,239 And then personally with myself, you actually are right. 467 00:25:41,239 --> 00:25:44,342 I am working on creating another book as well. 468 00:25:44,809 --> 00:25:46,111 I thought so. 469 00:25:46,511 --> 00:25:49,948 And just seeing kind of where this this field takes me and what 470 00:25:50,382 --> 00:25:54,052 and what I feel is the right next move and where I'm currently at. 471 00:25:54,586 --> 00:25:55,820 Nice. 472 00:25:55,820 --> 00:25:56,721 So you are. 473 00:25:56,721 --> 00:25:57,956 You're looking to the future. 474 00:25:57,956 --> 00:26:00,358 I love it. And you're working on the present. 475 00:26:00,358 --> 00:26:01,293 And I love that too. 476 00:26:01,293 --> 00:26:04,963 But you're not allowing the past to get in the way. 477 00:26:05,297 --> 00:26:07,599 And that's so crucial. 478 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:08,767 So crucial. 479 00:26:08,767 --> 00:26:11,903 Well, Morgan, we're coming to the end of our session. 480 00:26:12,137 --> 00:26:14,005 Here we go. I have session on the brain. 481 00:26:14,005 --> 00:26:16,942 We're coming to the end of our episode here. 482 00:26:17,442 --> 00:26:20,312 And something I ask all of my guest 483 00:26:20,912 --> 00:26:25,183 and I talk a lot about self-care and the importance of self-care. 484 00:26:25,183 --> 00:26:29,287 And I ask my guests, what are some things that they do for self-care? 485 00:26:29,287 --> 00:26:32,490 And so I want to ask you, what are some things 486 00:26:32,490 --> 00:26:35,760 that you do for self-care to help yourself? 487 00:26:36,161 --> 00:26:36,728 Just kind of 488 00:26:37,963 --> 00:26:40,498 just take care of yourself? 489 00:26:40,498 --> 00:26:42,200 That is a good question. 490 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,604 I think that most recently, one of the biggest things 491 00:26:45,637 --> 00:26:50,709 that's been helpful for my self-care is taking the time to learn myself 492 00:26:51,109 --> 00:26:52,444 in tune with myself 493 00:26:52,444 --> 00:26:56,014 and implement the appropriate boundaries within my life to honor that. 494 00:26:56,448 --> 00:27:01,152 Because I think that being someone that tends to be pretty motivated 495 00:27:01,152 --> 00:27:03,388 and ambitious and also, you know, wants to help, 496 00:27:03,688 --> 00:27:08,693 I tend to be someone that can run faster than I really need to 497 00:27:08,994 --> 00:27:12,297 and especially living in a world where, you know, there's there's so much urgency 498 00:27:12,297 --> 00:27:16,134 culture that's so normalized and a lot of overworking. 499 00:27:16,134 --> 00:27:21,606 So I think that for me, it's slowing down, being more present 500 00:27:22,073 --> 00:27:24,509 and in the actual moment that I'm in 501 00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:28,880 and tuning in with myself and honoring what that need is. 502 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,048 Oh, I love it. 503 00:27:30,048 --> 00:27:35,487 And that's a great advice for the helpers who are hurting, to be in the moment 504 00:27:35,487 --> 00:27:39,391 and be present with yourself and be more attune with your body. 505 00:27:39,391 --> 00:27:40,759 That is so good. 506 00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:43,328 We need to practice what we preach, don't we? Yes. 507 00:27:43,361 --> 00:27:44,429 Yes, we do. 508 00:27:44,429 --> 00:27:46,431 Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. 509 00:27:46,431 --> 00:27:47,399 I appreciate that. 510 00:27:47,399 --> 00:27:48,400 And by the way, I'm 511 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,304 going to put your information on your about your book will be on the show notes. 512 00:27:53,304 --> 00:27:57,142 So if anyone wants to check that out, go to mental health. 513 00:27:57,142 --> 00:28:02,047 Today's show, Ecom and check out the e-book that Morgan wrote. 514 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,848 It sounds very intriguing. 515 00:28:03,848 --> 00:28:08,286 Again, that's Mental Health Today show dot com and go check that out. 516 00:28:09,354 --> 00:28:12,390 Well, friends, thank you so much for tuning in to the show. 517 00:28:12,390 --> 00:28:15,927 I appreciate you so much and I know some of you are going through 518 00:28:15,927 --> 00:28:19,698 a lot of struggle some of you who are helpers are hurting too. 519 00:28:19,898 --> 00:28:23,401 And I hope this has been helpful for you and encouraging to you. 520 00:28:24,002 --> 00:28:26,604 Don't give up. Keep going forward. 521 00:28:26,905 --> 00:28:30,442 I always say try to do 1% better today, 522 00:28:30,475 --> 00:28:33,211 1% more today than you did yesterday. 523 00:28:33,778 --> 00:28:35,914 Keep working on your mental health. 524 00:28:36,648 --> 00:28:41,186 And as always, friends, you know that I really want you to know that 525 00:28:41,186 --> 00:28:47,859 the Mental Health Today show has been championing your mental health since 2015. 526 00:28:47,859 --> 00:28:48,493 Okay. 527 00:28:48,526 --> 00:29:03,742 Take care of.