Managing Burnout In The Workplace By Creating Healthy Lifestyle Choices With Gabrielle Juliano-Villani

John Cordray: 0:00

We've all been there. Burnout sometimes every day seems like Groundhog today. Doesn't it. And you get up, you get ready for work. You go to work. Come. And you do it all over again. And burnout is really, really a problem in our society because we are so much of the hustle culture. And so I wanted to talk about this episode specifically on managing burnout in the workplace by creating healthy lifestyle choices. With Gabrielle Juliano LAN. Yes. I said it. Right. So let me just tell you a little bit about Gabrielle. Gabrielle is a licensed clinical social worker living in Sarasota, Florida. She has been in private practice since 2017, focusing on grief and loss, chronic health issues, trauma, anxiety, depression, and caregiver issue. Before selling her practice in 2021. And she is a founder of G JV consulting and training where she focuses on burnout prevention and management through one-on-one consulting retreats in workshops, Gabrielle it's been an international speaker and has been published on care.com authority magazine, and featured on the everyday woman TV. Network. We'll be talking about managing burnout coming up right after this. Oh, don't And welcome back to the mental health today. Show my name is John Cordray and I am a licensed therapist and the host of the mental health today show. And today I am really excited to introduce to you somebody that really specialize. In managing burnout. Now I said this at the very beginning, we all face it. Most of us have gone through this at one time or another. And so I wanted to have Gabriela on to talk about what is it that we can do to help and prevent the burnout. So, Gabriela, thank you so much for coming on the show. Welcome.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 2:09

Thank you so much for having me. I am really excited to talk to you and have your listeners hear more about this.

John Cordray: 2:16

Absolutely. So let's get right to it. Tell me a little bit about burnout and what is it?

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 2:21

So burnout is often used as stress, but they're actually different things. So stress is too much and burnout is not enough. So I think people. Use burnout and they're like, I'm so burnt out, but really they're just very stressed. Mm-hmm so there's two different things there being burnt out. You'll know if you've been there before. mm-hmm you feel very apathetic, very overwhelmed, numb, exhausted, just kind of very detached from life. So burnout is not enough of those things and stress is too much of those things and it can also impact you physically, emotionally and behavior.

John Cordray: 3:08

And I think that's a great distinction between stress and burnout, because I think we do get those confused a lot. So we could be really stressed out and we might say and confused, Hey, I'm, I'm just burnt out. This is too much, but we're really saying is that we're too stressed. Yes. And that is probably a different way of treating stress than it is burnout. I would imagine. Yes

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 3:31

burnout is and can lead to it often feels like being in a depressive episode. Mm-hmm so it's very similar to that. And being burnt out for a long time can definitely lead to further mental health issues. Yeah,

John Cordray: 3:47

absolutely. And that's something that I talk a lot with. My clients is workplace burnout especially now there's so many people who are remote. I am remote now 100%. And I remember feeling a little bit burnout myself. Not because of my practice not be because of seeing clients, but because I didn't go anywhere. Yeah. I was stuck home and it felt like every single day was exactly the. Yes. And I don't know if you ever watched a movie a long time ago by with bill Murray. It was called Groundhog day mm-hmm and every day it was exactly the same and it felt like that

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 4:25

for sure. And I think. You know, with COVID and lockdown and all of the fun things that have come mm-hmm, outta that. And our lives have changed. There was a lot of that. I mean, we couldn't leave our house. We were doing the same thing every single day. I know my life changed really significantly. I was. Seeing clients in their homes. Mm-hmm so I was driving all over Denver and working. I don't even know how many hours in my private practice, probably like 50 and teaching Zumba and like doing all of these things. And then it all came to a halt and then everything was on zoom. And then I had to figure out zoom and get my like telehealth disclosure all figured out that's right. That's right. Remember that? . John Cordray: Absolutely. So I have to ask you, so how did you do Zumba on zoom? So I still do it on zoom. Oh, that's great. Yeah. So I just stream myself. So I just play the music through my computer speakers and I just stream it on zoom and people follow me. It's awesome. Oh, that's

John Cordray: 5:31

great. Yeah. That's but that's excellent. So we have to adapt. Yes. Right. And I would imagine that's a big part of preventing burnout is to adapt with cuz there are some things that we cannot control like a pandemic. Right. We can't control that. But we had to adapt. So what would you, what would be something that you would share with someone that maybe has come to you and expressed, Hey, I really do have burnout right now. It's not stress it's burnout. What can I do to help me feel better, but also prevent it next.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 6:09

Yes. So that's the key is of course prevention is ideal because once you get there, you're very usually depressed. There's a lot of physical stuff that can come along with it. Like chronic fatigue, feeling, very sad, a lot of like mental fog, feeling more. Physically ill then sometimes emotionally ill. So if you're already in that place some things to do are. First of all looking at, if, you know, if this is coming from work, looking at your job, is this mm-hmm, truly like, I think a lot of us did this during COVID. I know I did like, what are my values and what is my employer's values? Mm. Do those align, are they very, very different? . I mean, if they're very different, that's something to consider, you know, going to work 40 hours a week at a place where you're feeling like your values are not the same and you're not doing work. That feels good to you. That's definitely gonna stretch you too thin and lead to burnout. and right now is a good time to be looking for a job. Mm-hmm this is true. true. You know, I dunno if I should say that, but really it's true. So if you are in that place, you know, this is your life. This is it. You get up every day and this is what you're living. Do you wanna live that way? Do you wanna feel depressed and sad and pessimistic? You know, any of the other stuff that comes along with it. So thinking about that truly, because I find that when you really get to that place where you're truly burnt out, maybe it's time to make a big change and do something different. And then of course, therapy mm-hmm exactly. As I said before, being burnt out is very similar and can lead to depression. You certainly need, I hope that everybody hears this and if you're like doing something else right now, listen to this, you do not have to feel that way. You do not have to feel so sad and feeling like there is no way out. That's not normal. Mm-hmm so definitely reaching out for help. If that's something you're struggling with.

John Cordray: 8:27

I love that. And I also love the fact that you brought up values and that's something that I teach my clients all the time. Is, does your values. Your values or is it somebody else's values placed on you? Mm-hmm and when you feel like that, it's someone else's value, but I feel like I have to live up to that. That can produce a lot of burnout too, because you're not being authentic to yourself. Exactly. And when you're at a job, if your your job and you don't feel validated or supported or valued. That goes against everything that you want in a job. Right. Then it's just a job you're drudging through it. It's not a career. And I think what you're saying is, Hey, we, you need to look at what your career is or is it a job? How, how do you view where you work and do you enjoy going there? The people that you meet, the managers that you have, is it a great company culture or is it a toxic. Company culture. Yes. And so what would you say? So you mentioned, all right, so we need to figure out your alignment with your values with your career or your job, but what about personal? What are some minor things? And that's something that I teach a lot is even the little things that we, that we do, the changes, little change. Can add up to something bigger and I call them a little micro wins. What would you say to someone that really sees the fact that you know what? My, my current schedule that I keep is just not sustainable and I'm tired all the time. I'm worn out all the time and I don't look forward to getting up in the morning. Yeah. What would be some little strategies that you would recommend to. I love that

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 10:26

you called the micro wins. Mm-hmm that's a good little term because I say the same thing. Remember that book? Don't sweat the small stuff, but oh yes. It's all small stuff. yeah. Mm-hmm I mean, all these little things make a very big difference. And so, and it's hard to see that also when you're in that place of burnout, because everything is overwhelming and it feels like too much. So if you can do little things, they will make a difference. So if you're feeling. I don't know, maybe there's some stuff going on with your job duties. Can you talk to your manager and say, listen, I really hate doing this thing, but I really love doing this. Can I do less of that? And more of this, you know, if that's a possibility personally, you know, looking at having a good routine brains love structure. So. I one thing that I love to teach clients, and I do this for myself too, is having an end of day ritual mm-hmm . So I like to let my brain and my body know that we are done for the day. So for me, because I work from home, I don't work. Where I live when I know not everybody can do this, but I have a home office and I do not do trainings. I don't do stuff like this. I don't see clients in my bedroom or my living room or anywhere else. It all happens in my office. And if you don't have an office, then maybe there's just a little area, you know, the corner, or like a certain chair that you sit in when you work, something like that. So when I'm done for the day, I turn off all the lights in here and I close the door. And I don't go back in this office until the next work. So that just, that just gives me like that separation of work and my personal life.

John Cordray: 12:15

I think that's an excellent point, especially for those of us who work from home. Yes, there's a lot of us now and I call that internal boundaries. So what's a boundary. And I love the fact that you said we, you wanna keep your workspace completely separate than your living space. Even if it's not a separate room, there is a space that you can dedicate. That's where you work and then everywhere else is where you live. Yes. Yes. Because if you blend the two. That's a recipe for burnout,

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 12:45

for sure. It absolutely is. And so, whatever that looks like for you, you know, I had a nurse that I was working with and her end of day ritual was that she never brought her work shoes into the house. Hmm. So she's like, I take 'em off in the garage and they stay out there. that's how I know that I'm done for the day. Yeah. That's a great visual. Yes, yes, exactly. And you know, doing the work. And I know that again, when you're feeling burnt out, this can feel overwhelming. knowing yourself and noticing when you get triggered, noticing when you feel stressed, when you go into fight or flight, what is happening around you? Mm-hmm , you know, paying attention to those little things and then also doing the work and knowing what's grounding for you. What makes you feel good? And how can you recreate those feel good moments throughout the. Even if it's, I don't know, maybe if it's playing with your kids on the playground, well, you can't do that in the middle of your Workday, but you could probably stop and watch a video really quick. Or mm-hmm, look at a picture or, you know, have that picture on your desk where you can see it, something like that.

John Cordray: 13:53

I think that's excellent. That's excellent advice. And when we talk about healthy lifestyles and creating a healthy lifestyle, that alone can help prevent burnout. For sure. And I, I talk about eating and drinking, you know, drinking plenty of water and sleep. What are some of the, the lifestyle choices that you tell your clients?

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 14:17

Definitely exercise and I, not so much anymore, but I used to work with a lot of elderly clients and a lot of caregivers also. And so, you know, of course they're like, we can't exercise. We're sick. We're old. we can't do that. well, how can you just move your body? Can you do a little bit of chair yoga? You know, can you go for a quick walk? It's up to you to add these things into your routine. So even just a couple of minutes, a day will make a difference over the week. If you start adding that in and then once you start adding it in, you'll probably feel good and you'll want to do more of it and you'll prioritize it. So exercising is really important. What we eat is really important. There's so much that's happening in our gut. And if we are feeding ourselves McDonald's and Doritos, which I love by the way,

John Cordray: 15:15

why things always taste

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 15:17

so good. I know it's all that MSG. But all that processed food is not good for our mood and it just continues that cycle of being depressed and stressed and then we're not eating good. So we're not feeling good and we're tired, but we're not sleeping well. And it just is this whole bigger cycle. So breaking it down into just little, teeny, tiny, small steps, maybe having. And apple and peanut butter instead of the trios. Mm-hmm, absolutely that's one small choice in the day, but it will make a big difference.

John Cordray: 15:55

Yes. And that's really, that's really what we're talking about, making these small little choices that can make a big difference. Yes. And most of, most of the people listening to this is when I bring this up, they're gonna think, yep. You're right. I don't do that enough. And that's simply drinking enough water. Yeah. We, we need to stay hydrated. And a lot of times when we are so focused on work, we're not focused on anything else. And so we're not drinking enough water. And, and so if you don't have a water bottle near you during work, you've gotta, you gotta get one. Yes. And you need to use it and drink it because if you're dehydrated that actually affects your mental health as.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 16:41

It absolutely does. And it'll make you foggy and tired and it can lead to a ton of other problems. So find again what works for you. Get a cute water bottle, put some little flavor drops in there that don't have sugar.

John Cordray: 16:56

right. That's exactly right. And then that leads that can lead to lack of. Yes. And one of the things, a, a very, a big trend that I see with my clients because all my clients are remote workers and they do a lot of hours behind the screen and they keep going and going and going. And the, and then when they would normally would stop work in the office, they, they feel like they can just keep going into the late night and then they can't fall asleep. Yeah. Because their brain is activated. Yep. And when your brain is activated, it is hard to fall asleep and your brain needs to sleep. And that there that, I mean, that's a big problem in so many people anywhere, all over the world is not getting enough sleep. So I would imagine your recommendations a part of working on preventing burnout is to also get a good night's rest.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 17:57

Yes, that is so important. I mean, I also specialize and do a lot of work with chronic pain and chronic illness, and a lot of chronic illnesses are preventable and the main things are not drinking too much. Alcohol. Not smoking, eating good exercising and sleeping, and those are all things that we have control over.

John Cordray: 18:22

Absolutely. And really for the most part it's free and always available. yes. but the main, main factor is us. Yes. Is, is getting and being motivated to do that. And so, so that that's kinda where it, the heart part comes in. So if you're already burn. How do we get the motivation to get out of that?

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 18:48

I think paying attention to your body and where you're at. So when we are burnt out, we're usually thinking about our nervous system. We're usually in our freeze response. And sometimes when I'm talking to people, they're like, I, you know, they'll say that I'm not motivated. I can't do those things right now. That's okay. Just paying attention and thinking that maybe this burnout also serves a purpose, right. And something good. Maybe this is a time for you to reflect or a time for you to rest.

John Cordray: 19:19

I like that a lot, because we need to pay attention to the signals. Our body is telling us yes.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 19:26

And having some compassion for ourselves too, you know, not beating yourself up and thinking, yep. I should do all those things. I should, I should, I should. I'm not doing any of them. I'm a bad person, you know, and this cycle continues, but just noticing like, yep. Don't feel good today. I am. I'm sad and I'm stretched too thin. And, you know, just letting yourself feel that because if you push it away, as we know, , it'll come back out in other ways. So just starting again, just small adding the things that you can do, even if it is, you know, one minute, a day. Where you can meditate or getting that cute water bottle. So you are drinking enough water. Mm-hmm, like taking the first step towards that. Adding the end of day ritual taking breaks throughout your day to, you know, rest and maintain your energy, practicing gratitude. That's also free and very easy.

John Cordray: 20:21

That is great. Tho those are really, really helpful. Different lifestyle choices that people can make relatively simple, but very difficult to implement and practice when you're struggling. Yes. But if, but, but here's the thing. If you're struggling and you have burnout and you're just burned out and you just kinda shut down, nobody can. Make you do anything. It has to come from you. Mm-hmm and you have to develop that, that drive that will to live, to make a change. And no one can change that for you. It can't make you change that. And so there's gotta be a point where it goes from your thought, your mind. Yeah. I need to do that to. I'm going to do it.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 21:12

Yes. And we think that we're waiting for motivation to do these things, and that's not how it works, actually. so we actually need to do it. And then the motivation comes. If you wait for motivation, it's never going to come. So you just have to force yourself to do it. Even, like I said, if it's one minute of exercise, if you just do jumping jacks, when you first wake up for one. That's something that counts.

John Cordray: 21:40

Absolutely. It does. And I, I talk a lot about the, I call it piercing the wall. So you, you wanna get to the other side, but the only way through is, or to it is through the wall and you have to lean into it and you have to Pierce it to get to the other side. And it's not gonna feel good at first, but once you're on the other side, you're gonna be glad that you did it.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 22:04

Yes. You will, you'll always feel better. And, you know, I struggle with that sometimes too. And I have struggled with it in my own burnout, which I just went through my second big one as I like to call it. And I put little post-it notes. Like I have them on my computer as like little reminders, like take a break, go outside. You know, I try and add those little things throughout my day because I know that they're gonna make me feel better.

John Cordray: 22:32

I think that's so important. And I think it's, the temptation could be for people to say, well, that's just a little thing. That's not gonna help. Well, you don't know until you try and you need to do more than once. You don't want to, you don't try something one time and then say it doesn't work and then give up.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 22:51

I always tell clients, you need to do this every day for two weeks before you tell me it doesn't work. Hmm.

John Cordray: 22:58

That's great. Because it's really easy to come up with the excuses. Mm-hmm, , I've tried it, it doesn't work and I'm just not gonna get better. And it leads to the negative thinking and it really, they get trapped. Yes. And then they continue to be

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 23:15

burnout. Yes. And, you know, don't forget too. And I mean, some of your listeners who are therapists may know this and some people may not, but we can create new pathways in our brains. So. You think that it's just a stupid, small little thing and it's not going to make a difference. It does. The science backs that up and again, try one little thing every day for two weeks and see if that works. And sometimes people do that and it's like, yeah, after a couple of days I felt really good. So then I started, I added on one other thing. Yeah. You know, and that helps get that motivation going.

John Cordray: 23:51

Absolutely. And so. Gabriel. I, I just have one or two more questions for you. The one I'm thinking of here is it possible for someone who is experiencing burnout? To start feeling much better and not be burned out and be happy again. Is that possible?

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 24:12

Yes, it's always possible. And I know that again, it feels like when you're in that space, that this is it and there's, there's nothing else and you're overwhelmed and you just don't wanna do it anymore, but you know, change is always possible and you can definitely feel better and that's not normal to be feeling that way. Every single.

John Cordray: 24:34

Yes. Thank you. So what, tell me something I like to ask my guest is what are what's one or, or two things that you do for self care?

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 24:47

I love this question. So I, there's a couple things that I like to do. One is that I. Still struggle with this, but I'm working on my boundaries. I am very clear about my boundaries and my time. And I say, no, when I need to say no, because when I say yes and I overdo it, then it's, I'm stressed. And I feel like there's not enough time and I'm tired and I'm grumpy. And it's my fault for saying. So I pay attention to my body and what I'm needing, and if I need a day off or if I need a weekend in, then I say no, and I, I listen to that. So that's one thing that I do something else that I also try and do every day, but doesn't always happen as I enjoy meditating. And for me, Is the one thing that just really relaxes me and clears my mind and it took me a long time to feel that way. mm. I have a good routine with it. Now I sit outside with my coffee every morning in the sun. I put some music on and I just kind of let whatever is going on in my head. Just kind of float on through. I notice it. I don't have any judgments and that just gives me a good start to my.

John Cordray: 26:11

Oh, that's great. Fantastic. So, Just to give just kind of a cover. What we just talked about here to help someone who's struggling with burnout. We talked about taking micro wins and doing little things, and we called them wins because when you do something little, it is a win and they add up. and we talked about taking breaks and being kind to yourself in boundaries, in validation and values. Those are all very, very important. And if you are struggling with, or maybe you have someone close to you, that's struggling with burnout. These are all things that add up because you didn't get burned out all at once. It didn't just happen. It's a gradual. Well think about, it's a gradual thing to get out of burnout as well. Mm-hmm and being intentional with making healthy lifestyle choices, and that will help you get out of this burnout cycle that you're in. Perfectly

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 27:17

said,

John Cordray: 27:18

thank you. Thank you. I've been doing this part a little bit but I just wanna thank you so much Gabrielle for coming on the show and just talking to my listeners and sharing about burnout, because that is something that I think is affecting so many more people than they even realize. I think burnout for some they can recognize it and for others, they may not recognize. So it's really good to bring this topic up.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 27:45

Yes. I'm happy to chat about it. And that is very true. Sometimes we're already there and we feel like it's too late to do anything, but that's definitely not the case as we just talked about. So

John Cordray: 27:59

yeah. Thank you. Absolutely. You're welcome. And I appreciate being here and if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how could they do.

Gabrielle Juliano-Villani: 28:07

The best way to reach out to me is on my LinkedIn. And it's just my name, Gabrielle Juliano LAN. You can also send me an email it's leading with G JV, gmail.com.

John Cordray: 28:21

Very good. And we will put that in the show notes as well. So make it very, very easy for people to find. Perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much. And I want to thank you all for listening to the show. I really appreciate you. If you get a chance, love to have you go and subscribe and give a rating. And especially for this episode, cuz a rating will go towards Gabrielle. You you'll probably give her a five star. But, and I would but I, I appreciate y'all listening and make sure you go to mental health today. show.com. And you can find more episodes there and we just launched a Twitter handle. Now, if you're on Twitter, you can go to at M H. Tea show for mental health today. Show on Twitter. Thank you so much. Take care. And remember we have been championing your mental health since 2015. Take.