How to Identify and Manage Compassion Fatigue With Natasha D’Arcangelo

1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,780 John Cordray: Some of you are going to really resonate with this episode. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,340 We're gonna be talking about compassion fatigue, and this goes 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,700 to both a professional caregiver. 4 00:00:11,700 --> 00:00:13,950 Maybe you, you give a lot of care. 5 00:00:14,850 --> 00:00:19,920 I don't know, maybe you're a nurse or a nanny or even a therapist, 6 00:00:20,490 --> 00:00:25,110 or maybe you are a loved one and you're caring for your spouse or a. 7 00:00:26,369 --> 00:00:30,930 You know how hard it can be and how emotionally draining it could be. 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,430 Well, there's a term for that. 9 00:00:32,430 --> 00:00:33,690 It's compassion fatigue. 10 00:00:34,170 --> 00:00:38,700 And so today, this episode, we're gonna talk about how to identify and 11 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:42,180 manage compassion fatigue with Natasha. 12 00:00:42,420 --> 00:00:44,459 Dark Angelo coming right up. 13 00:00:45,405 --> 00:00:50,714 Oh, don't worry about today, or things we cannot change. 14 00:00:50,985 --> 00:00:52,964 It's over the past. 15 00:00:52,964 --> 00:00:53,625 We can 16 00:00:53,625 --> 00:00:53,985 erase. 17 00:00:54,254 --> 00:00:55,964 Welcome to the Mental Health Today Show. 18 00:00:55,964 --> 00:01:00,315 My name is John Cordrey and I'm a licensed therapist, and I'm the host of this 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,355 show, and I am so happy that you're here. 20 00:01:02,715 --> 00:01:06,285 I hope that you're tuning into this because maybe you're not 21 00:01:06,285 --> 00:01:10,815 experiencing compassion fatigue yet, but if you're caring for somebody 22 00:01:11,414 --> 00:01:13,425 and you're, you're going through. 23 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:14,520 Your schedule. 24 00:01:14,550 --> 00:01:18,210 Maybe it's hard on your schedule, maybe it is draining to you. 25 00:01:18,450 --> 00:01:22,320 You may not be experiencing compassion fatigue yet, but it could happen 26 00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:24,420 and it doesn't happen overnight. 27 00:01:24,420 --> 00:01:25,980 It's a gradual process. 28 00:01:25,980 --> 00:01:32,280 And so today I have a professional and a certified, and her name is Natasha. 29 00:01:32,610 --> 00:01:35,789 And Natasha is a licensed mental health counselor. 30 00:01:36,210 --> 00:01:39,930 She's licensed in three states, Florida, Oregon, and Washington. 31 00:01:40,380 --> 00:01:41,880 She is also a national. 32 00:01:42,270 --> 00:01:43,890 Nationally certified counselor. 33 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:47,640 She is a certified clinical trauma professional. 34 00:01:48,090 --> 00:01:53,250 She's a certified compassion fatigue professional, and a compassion fatigue 35 00:01:53,370 --> 00:01:58,679 educator, and every one of those have letters to them, so she can't put all 36 00:01:58,679 --> 00:02:02,789 the letters behind her name because the entire alphabet, it just takes 37 00:02:02,789 --> 00:02:04,490 up too much room on a business card. 38 00:02:06,315 --> 00:02:06,434 Accurate. 39 00:02:06,524 --> 00:02:06,945 Yeah. 40 00:02:06,945 --> 00:02:07,335 Right. 41 00:02:07,544 --> 00:02:10,755 She's received her master's in arts and clinical mental health 42 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:13,065 counseling from, what was that? 43 00:02:13,255 --> 00:02:14,334 Ar Argosy. 44 00:02:14,334 --> 00:02:14,935 Argosy. 45 00:02:14,935 --> 00:02:15,334 Thank you. 46 00:02:15,340 --> 00:02:17,265 Argosy University Sarasota. 47 00:02:17,685 --> 00:02:22,125 She works with adolescents and adults in her role as a staff therapist for 48 00:02:22,125 --> 00:02:27,885 Headspace Health, and her previous experience includes 15 years as an. 49 00:02:28,725 --> 00:02:32,325 Community mental health work and private practice, and she has 50 00:02:32,325 --> 00:02:36,915 presented on various topics including destigmatizing, mental health care, 51 00:02:37,245 --> 00:02:41,925 compassion fatigue, and effective techniques for working with teens. 52 00:02:42,195 --> 00:02:43,365 She's a public speaker. 53 00:02:44,085 --> 00:02:44,775 Wow. 54 00:02:44,835 --> 00:02:46,125 That is a mouthful. 55 00:02:46,305 --> 00:02:48,195 Natasha, welcome to the show. 56 00:02:48,570 --> 00:02:50,130 Natasha D'Arcangelo: Thank you so much for having me. 57 00:02:50,130 --> 00:02:51,750 I'm very excited to be here. 58 00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:52,140 Thank 59 00:02:52,140 --> 00:02:52,560 John Cordray: you. 60 00:02:52,650 --> 00:02:53,400 Oh, you're welcome. 61 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,080 And I am always excited about having licensed individuals, but it's always 62 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,750 that, how many credentials do you have? 63 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:01,590 . Right? 64 00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:03,380 It's a lot . Yeah. 65 00:03:03,450 --> 00:03:04,920 I I, I'm same. 66 00:03:05,070 --> 00:03:05,730 I'm the same. 67 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,350 Natasha D'Arcangelo: We should, we should never stop 68 00:03:07,355 --> 00:03:07,860 John Cordray: learning. 69 00:03:07,860 --> 00:03:08,520 That's right. 70 00:03:08,850 --> 00:03:12,540 I have a whole alphabet behind my name too, and so I, I get that. 71 00:03:12,810 --> 00:03:15,900 Well, welcome and I'm, I'm really glad that you're here and I 72 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:17,420 appreciate you, you taking some. 73 00:03:18,075 --> 00:03:23,235 And I, I really want to get right into the compassion fatigue, but before 74 00:03:23,235 --> 00:03:28,155 we get into that, I love hearing backs, stories of professionals and, 75 00:03:28,155 --> 00:03:33,465 and kinda why, why did you get into compassion fatigue in the first place? 76 00:03:33,525 --> 00:03:34,875 Why did you become a therapist? 77 00:03:35,085 --> 00:03:37,545 So can you tell us a little bit of your backstory? 78 00:03:37,815 --> 00:03:38,745 Natasha D'Arcangelo: Absolutely. 79 00:03:39,975 --> 00:03:42,465 Well, the two, there are two different stories, but I'll go with the 80 00:03:42,465 --> 00:03:45,795 compassion fatigue one since that's what we're talking about today. 81 00:03:46,125 --> 00:03:53,535 It was back in March of 2020 and I realized Covid was going to be really 82 00:03:53,535 --> 00:03:58,575 bad and I thought to myself, you know, we are going to end up with a 83 00:03:58,575 --> 00:04:04,275 generation of nurses struggling with P T S D, and that's not good for anybody. 84 00:04:04,515 --> 00:04:06,675 And God bless the nurses. 85 00:04:06,885 --> 00:04:08,205 I can't do that. 86 00:04:09,075 --> 00:04:13,245 And I figured how, how else could I support and, well, I 87 00:04:13,245 --> 00:04:14,985 can use my therapeutic skills. 88 00:04:15,495 --> 00:04:19,755 So I had partnered with a dean of nursing at a school in St. 89 00:04:19,755 --> 00:04:22,455 Pete here in Florida, and we were offering free support 90 00:04:22,455 --> 00:04:24,645 groups for nurses on weekends. 91 00:04:25,185 --> 00:04:27,465 And it just didn't feel like I was doing enough. 92 00:04:27,645 --> 00:04:31,455 And so, me being me, I said, well, I need some training in this. 93 00:04:32,070 --> 00:04:36,450 And so I found this course on compassion fatigue, became a 94 00:04:36,450 --> 00:04:41,010 compassion fatigue professional, and it's really grown since then. 95 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:46,500 And so I've, you know, I worked with physicians, with nurses, with teachers, 96 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:49,060 you know, with therapists with. 97 00:04:49,605 --> 00:04:54,675 You know, anybody that's in a caregiving role is susceptible to compassion fatigue. 98 00:04:55,005 --> 00:04:57,435 And so it's kind of grown since then. 99 00:04:57,765 --> 00:05:03,315 And now that I have the knowledge that I have, I realize when I was working 100 00:05:03,405 --> 00:05:09,015 at the Community Mental Health agency, I was knee deep in compassion fatigue. 101 00:05:09,615 --> 00:05:11,355 I just didn't know what it was. 102 00:05:11,355 --> 00:05:13,095 I didn't have the words for it. 103 00:05:13,395 --> 00:05:16,005 So it's kind of a twofold thing that's happened for. 104 00:05:17,219 --> 00:05:17,550 John Cordray: Yeah. 105 00:05:17,550 --> 00:05:21,180 So can you define what compassion fatigue is? 106 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:22,290 Natasha D'Arcangelo: Absolutely. 107 00:05:22,290 --> 00:05:27,360 So the most commonly used definition was developed by Dr. 108 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:34,890 Charles Figley back in 1995, and he identified compassion fatigue as comprised 109 00:05:34,890 --> 00:05:38,580 of two things, burnout plus secondary. 110 00:05:39,450 --> 00:05:45,900 So the textbook definition is that it's a state of exhaustion and dysfunction 111 00:05:46,580 --> 00:05:50,789 biologically, psychologically, and socially as a result of 112 00:05:50,789 --> 00:05:55,500 prolonged exposure to compassion, stress, and all that it invokes. 113 00:05:55,859 --> 00:06:00,719 This is a pretty broad definition, but it comes from doing work where 114 00:06:00,979 --> 00:06:03,750 your primary task is taking care of. 115 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:07,140 So burnout plus secondary trauma. 116 00:06:07,410 --> 00:06:07,740 That 117 00:06:07,740 --> 00:06:09,180 John Cordray: makes a lot of sense. 118 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,290 And so you're saying that there are a lot of, lot of professionals. 119 00:06:13,295 --> 00:06:17,520 You mentioned nurses, we can add to that list of doctors. 120 00:06:18,180 --> 00:06:21,270 You mentioned therapists, even nannies, 121 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,220 Natasha D'Arcangelo: nannies, educators. 122 00:06:23,225 --> 00:06:23,440 Yeah. 123 00:06:23,870 --> 00:06:25,159 Yeah, absolutely. 124 00:06:25,370 --> 00:06:28,590 John Cordray: So a lot of my clients, they do experience a lot 125 00:06:28,590 --> 00:06:30,030 of compassion fatigue as well. 126 00:06:30,030 --> 00:06:32,490 I talk to a lot of nurses and doctors. 127 00:06:33,285 --> 00:06:34,855 And educators. 128 00:06:34,855 --> 00:06:39,075 I actually worked in the school system for about four years during 129 00:06:39,075 --> 00:06:41,325 Covid and talk about fatigue. 130 00:06:41,715 --> 00:06:41,925 Now. 131 00:06:41,925 --> 00:06:44,925 We were talking about the healthcare industry, but also the education. 132 00:06:45,615 --> 00:06:46,545 Oh, a hundred percent. 133 00:06:46,605 --> 00:06:50,595 During Covid and, and here, all of a sudden we had teachers that 134 00:06:50,775 --> 00:06:55,485 they didn't sign up for what was happening with Covid and, and now 135 00:06:55,485 --> 00:06:57,705 all of a sudden we have to go online. 136 00:06:58,830 --> 00:07:02,550 Which creates a whole nother, nother, I would say, trauma. 137 00:07:03,330 --> 00:07:08,250 And then when the kids I worked with had extreme trauma, and so 138 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:12,690 here are teachers who are trying to educate students who had trauma. 139 00:07:12,870 --> 00:07:17,970 This is before covid, then Covid hits, and now all of a sudden everybody has to go 140 00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:21,900 online and they're trying to figure out how do I, how do I teach a class on a. 141 00:07:22,965 --> 00:07:24,465 Natasha D'Arcangelo: Which they hadn't done before. 142 00:07:24,555 --> 00:07:25,155 Exactly. 143 00:07:25,425 --> 00:07:28,185 And you know, our teachers are already overworked and 144 00:07:28,185 --> 00:07:28,935 John Cordray: underpaid. 145 00:07:29,055 --> 00:07:30,825 Yes, absolutely. 146 00:07:30,825 --> 00:07:35,925 And, and then I talk with nurses and, and doctors and I just, I just had a 147 00:07:35,925 --> 00:07:43,395 doctor on not long ago on my show, and he was an ER doctor, physician in New York 148 00:07:43,875 --> 00:07:50,835 right when everything hit with Covid and he was just describing how hard it is. 149 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,290 For, for doctors and, and then and nurses and then to lose patients. 150 00:07:55,470 --> 00:07:55,950 Natasha D'Arcangelo: Yes. 151 00:07:56,190 --> 00:08:00,870 And that's the thing is they, of course we know that at some point you're going 152 00:08:00,870 --> 00:08:05,490 to lose a patient, but not at this volume. 153 00:08:05,580 --> 00:08:05,970 John Cordray: Right. 154 00:08:06,270 --> 00:08:09,720 And, and for a lot of the caregivers, they were losing patients, but 155 00:08:10,020 --> 00:08:12,450 in his case, he lost a loved. 156 00:08:13,665 --> 00:08:14,835 Someone in his family. 157 00:08:14,835 --> 00:08:21,525 And so now he is trying to grieve and work and save people's lives at the same time. 158 00:08:21,885 --> 00:08:25,285 And so compassion fatigue, it's, it's not just educators. 159 00:08:25,290 --> 00:08:26,925 It's not just the healthcare profession. 160 00:08:26,925 --> 00:08:30,765 It's really anybody who takes care of other people. 161 00:08:31,455 --> 00:08:35,865 And when we, sometimes it's things that we take on ourselves and we do too much 162 00:08:35,865 --> 00:08:40,965 work, but there are some things outside of our control that really weigh us. 163 00:08:41,850 --> 00:08:45,930 So what are some things that you have seen kind of give us an idea 164 00:08:45,930 --> 00:08:49,980 of, of a person that may be a professional that you're working with. 165 00:08:50,340 --> 00:08:52,740 What are some things, some signs? 166 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:55,980 That you would maybe talk to somebody and say, here are some 167 00:08:55,980 --> 00:08:57,750 signs of compassion fatigue. 168 00:08:57,900 --> 00:08:58,590 Natasha D'Arcangelo: Absolutely. 169 00:08:58,590 --> 00:09:04,950 So before I get into symptoms, there is a fantastic tool that is out there for free. 170 00:09:05,190 --> 00:09:10,920 It is the pro Q o l p r o q o l five. 171 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,470 They're on the fifth iteration right now. 172 00:09:13,070 --> 00:09:17,390 And it's a really nice tool that you can use to objectively measure 173 00:09:17,395 --> 00:09:19,580 your symptoms of compassion fatigue. 174 00:09:19,910 --> 00:09:20,210 Yep. 175 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,870 It's got two subscales that measures your compassion satisfaction. 176 00:09:23,870 --> 00:09:25,910 That's the good stuff about what we do. 177 00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:28,550 That's the stuff that keeps us coming back. 178 00:09:29,140 --> 00:09:34,500 And then it also measures compassion fatigue with two subscales of burnout 179 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:38,640 and secondary traumatic stress, which again are those two necessary 180 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,590 ingredients for compassion fatigue. 181 00:09:40,590 --> 00:09:46,500 So if anybody's looking for a resource, the pro q o l, hands down, 182 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:48,329 readily available on the website. 183 00:09:48,329 --> 00:09:49,260 You can print it out. 184 00:09:49,260 --> 00:09:53,500 They have it available where you can actually just click through the questions. 185 00:09:53,505 --> 00:09:53,941 I'll do that. 186 00:09:54,100 --> 00:09:58,020 So, In session with a client and we get the answers in 187 00:09:58,020 --> 00:10:00,030 real time, so fantastic tool. 188 00:10:00,150 --> 00:10:00,660 Oh, that's great. 189 00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:01,380 Thank you for that. 190 00:10:01,410 --> 00:10:02,610 Yeah, absolutely. 191 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:04,080 They do great research. 192 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,160 So, and all of the literature on compassion fatigue mentions the ProQOL 193 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:13,530 five, so, you know, it's been well researched, but the, the thing with, I 194 00:10:13,535 --> 00:10:17,130 wanna break it down into the secondary traumatic stress and burnout pieces. 195 00:10:18,210 --> 00:10:23,040 But secondary traumatic stress that comes when we are either 196 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,840 witnessing or interacting with traumatized or suffering people. 197 00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:32,280 So we're kind of, we're listening to those narratives over and over and over again. 198 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,800 Think about law enforcement, think about our first responders, 199 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,490 therapists, things like that, right? 200 00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:43,680 The symptoms are nearly identical to post-traumatic stress disorder. 201 00:10:44,190 --> 00:10:48,960 Especially when you look at those subcategories of intrusion, that's 202 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,660 when you're having the thoughts that you don't want to be having. 203 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,690 So maybe it's the end of your shift, right? 204 00:10:54,690 --> 00:10:57,990 You're an emergency room physician, but you can't stop thinking. 205 00:10:58,395 --> 00:11:01,875 About, I don't know, maybe like a six year old that you saw that day. 206 00:11:01,935 --> 00:11:04,965 You don't want to be thinking about it, but those thoughts are intruding. 207 00:11:05,265 --> 00:11:08,655 And then there's also avoidance symptoms, so that's where you 208 00:11:08,655 --> 00:11:12,915 avoid things related to some of the narratives that you're hearing. 209 00:11:13,245 --> 00:11:17,385 So maybe there's things that you're avoiding places that you don't want to go. 210 00:11:17,775 --> 00:11:21,045 We and, and you mentioned this at the outset, and I'm so glad you did. 211 00:11:21,105 --> 00:11:23,655 We usually don't notice when we're struggling with 212 00:11:23,655 --> 00:11:24,945 secondary traumatic stress. 213 00:11:24,945 --> 00:11:26,385 It's the people around us. 214 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,500 That are saying things like, you know, you never accept my dinner invitations 215 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:35,640 anymore, or I've been trying to call you, but I can't get in touch with you. 216 00:11:35,970 --> 00:11:41,430 You know, we kind of go into this isolation and it happens so gradually. 217 00:11:41,435 --> 00:11:43,230 We typically don't pick up on it. 218 00:11:43,500 --> 00:11:46,710 So that's the secondary traumatic stress piece of things. 219 00:11:46,830 --> 00:11:52,140 And then there's the burnout piece of things and your symptoms there. 220 00:11:52,140 --> 00:11:53,310 You're looking at things. 221 00:11:54,090 --> 00:11:57,090 Anxiety, compulsive behaviors. 222 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,990 Sometimes we're struggling with increased substance use. 223 00:12:00,990 --> 00:12:02,520 That can be a giveaway. 224 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,540 Maybe you're feeling hopeless, you're you're not working 225 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:07,620 the way that you used to. 226 00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:09,000 You're not as productive. 227 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:10,380 You wanna quit your job. 228 00:12:10,380 --> 00:12:13,800 You're not sleeping well, you're fatigued, you're nervous all the 229 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,990 time, or maybe you feel numb. 230 00:12:16,350 --> 00:12:18,120 So those are some of the common ones. 231 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,510 Irritability is actually another one that I get a lot from folks. 232 00:12:23,010 --> 00:12:26,310 John Cordray: Well, I think those are some really good things to look for. 233 00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:30,060 And I'm sure when people are listening to that, they're checking off in their mind. 234 00:12:30,089 --> 00:12:30,510 Yep. 235 00:12:30,729 --> 00:12:31,150 Yep. 236 00:12:32,579 --> 00:12:33,359 that, that's me. 237 00:12:33,359 --> 00:12:34,530 That's me, that's me. 238 00:12:34,829 --> 00:12:40,829 And you know, when I think of a mom or a dad, when they have a lot of kids and 239 00:12:40,859 --> 00:12:44,489 they're running back and forth, back and forth, and our schedules are super busy. 240 00:12:45,540 --> 00:12:50,250 Whether they're taking a, a child to soccer or some other game practice and 241 00:12:50,489 --> 00:12:54,810 all these other things, these activities, and then maybe something happens in their 242 00:12:54,810 --> 00:12:58,829 family and then all of a sudden a tragedy. 243 00:12:59,219 --> 00:13:03,900 Maybe it's an accident, maybe it's a horrible diagnosis medically. 244 00:13:04,319 --> 00:13:08,729 Now all of a sudden that busy family is interrupted and now they 245 00:13:08,729 --> 00:13:12,060 have to switch gears and now they have to pay a lot of attention. 246 00:13:12,060 --> 00:13:12,849 Let's say it's a. 247 00:13:13,770 --> 00:13:16,949 Now a lot of the tension is on that child trying to take care of 248 00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:19,469 that child and what can happen. 249 00:13:19,589 --> 00:13:22,920 I'm just envisioning this in, in my mind, that that could really 250 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,040 interfere and and inhibit the marriage. 251 00:13:26,610 --> 00:13:27,360 Oh, absolutely. 252 00:13:27,449 --> 00:13:32,400 The relationship with the other kids, and so we can't control bad 253 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,110 things from happening in our lives. 254 00:13:34,110 --> 00:13:37,290 We don't want things like that to happen, but they do. 255 00:13:37,589 --> 00:13:39,150 I just had a, I have a client. 256 00:13:39,660 --> 00:13:45,120 Just recently this week and last week, everything was fine until someone 257 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:49,490 ran a red light and they, everybody in the family got in an accident. 258 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:50,910 It was fine. 259 00:13:51,450 --> 00:13:55,320 And, and then now all of a sudden, that traumatic event, it just, they're 260 00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:59,400 trying to take care of their kids and it's exhausting and they're trying 261 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,850 to manage their own grief while they're trying to help their kids. 262 00:14:03,330 --> 00:14:07,740 And this is something that's very important to be able to identify. 263 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,420 And to then not only identify it, but to say, you know what? 264 00:14:12,930 --> 00:14:13,260 I think I 265 00:14:13,260 --> 00:14:13,710 Natasha D'Arcangelo: need help. 266 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:14,700 Yes. 267 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,140 That's the huge part. 268 00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:19,800 That is the huge part, and I think that for folks that are 269 00:14:19,805 --> 00:14:23,580 professional caregivers, there often is a stigma with that. 270 00:14:23,580 --> 00:14:24,060 Right? 271 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:29,670 I can't tell you how many nurses and physicians I spoke to who when they came 272 00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:32,310 to me, were in a place where they were. 273 00:14:32,340 --> 00:14:33,420 They were ashamed. 274 00:14:34,050 --> 00:14:36,780 They were ashamed that they were coming to me because what they would 275 00:14:36,780 --> 00:14:40,740 tell me, They're hearing things like, well, you signed up for this. 276 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,530 Didn't you expect that this was going to happen? 277 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:49,860 Educators, unfortunately, hearing the same thing, and yes, we, we signed up for this. 278 00:14:49,860 --> 00:14:54,720 We, we understand that we're here to help people and also we're human. 279 00:14:55,230 --> 00:14:58,920 We deal with tough things, and it's hard to do this work 280 00:14:59,430 --> 00:15:01,590 without being impacted by it. 281 00:15:01,590 --> 00:15:02,460 I mean, think about it. 282 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:04,080 Why do you go into a caregiving. 283 00:15:04,995 --> 00:15:08,655 Because you, you care about other people, you want to help them, right? 284 00:15:09,015 --> 00:15:14,745 And so in some ways, we're almost more predisposed to developing compassion 285 00:15:14,745 --> 00:15:18,765 fatigue because we care about what we do. 286 00:15:19,125 --> 00:15:25,110 So, You know, I hope that that folks can take away, if you are a caregiver and 287 00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:30,210 some of this stuff is resonating with you, it's okay to go talk to somebody. 288 00:15:30,510 --> 00:15:33,930 It doesn't mean that you are doing something wrong. 289 00:15:33,930 --> 00:15:37,710 It doesn't mean that you're failing in some way means that you're human 290 00:15:37,715 --> 00:15:39,090 and at some point you're another. 291 00:15:39,090 --> 00:15:40,380 We all need help. 292 00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:40,860 That's 293 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:41,430 John Cordray: okay. 294 00:15:42,510 --> 00:15:44,220 I don't think I could have said it any better. 295 00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:47,580 You're exactly right, and sometimes we need to hear. 296 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:49,680 That we're humans. 297 00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:50,610 We're humans too. 298 00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:55,110 We might be a professional caregiver, but we are people too. 299 00:15:56,070 --> 00:16:00,330 And we hurt and we get exhausted sometimes. 300 00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:05,880 I know . I know that we can be sometimes the worst patients. 301 00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:08,620 Yeah, accurate, right? 302 00:16:09,150 --> 00:16:13,170 We can tell people what they should do and work on, but as caregivers, 303 00:16:13,170 --> 00:16:15,210 we tend to not follow our own. 304 00:16:16,035 --> 00:16:19,725 And that's something that when I talk with nurses, it's the same thing. 305 00:16:20,115 --> 00:16:22,455 It's like, now what would you tell your patients? 306 00:16:22,935 --> 00:16:24,525 Okay, you're right. 307 00:16:24,735 --> 00:16:25,065 Then you 308 00:16:25,065 --> 00:16:26,085 Natasha D'Arcangelo: get the eye roll. 309 00:16:26,090 --> 00:16:26,715 That's right. 310 00:16:26,895 --> 00:16:27,465 John Cordray: That's right. 311 00:16:28,155 --> 00:16:33,615 But it's so true and we are so much wanting to do something for others 312 00:16:33,620 --> 00:16:38,565 and, and go out of our way and really sacrifice in order to help someone. 313 00:16:39,390 --> 00:16:44,910 But when we do that, when we give away a lot of our energy and our emotions 314 00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:48,150 and our time, it can wear on us. 315 00:16:48,180 --> 00:16:50,730 And that's something that we want to pay attention to. 316 00:16:51,690 --> 00:16:56,400 And if you're a therapist, you know this, but you need to hear this, 317 00:16:56,405 --> 00:16:58,660 that what are you doing right now? 318 00:16:59,220 --> 00:17:03,660 Are you taking time for yourself to manage your compassion? 319 00:17:04,950 --> 00:17:09,569 And so this is a, a really good segue, Natasha, to talk a little 320 00:17:09,569 --> 00:17:11,040 bit about what are some ways. 321 00:17:12,764 --> 00:17:15,585 We can manage this compassion fatigue. 322 00:17:15,734 --> 00:17:16,484 Natasha D'Arcangelo: Absolutely. 323 00:17:16,484 --> 00:17:19,274 And I'm so glad , to talk about this piece. 324 00:17:19,274 --> 00:17:24,315 So when I, when I do speaking engagements on this, I walk folks 325 00:17:24,315 --> 00:17:28,514 through, if I have time, I'll have them take the pro Q O L real time. 326 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,500 But if not, I also have them do their ACEs. 327 00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:37,070 So the adverse childhood experiences 10 questions and it gives you a 328 00:17:37,074 --> 00:17:42,720 baseline for potential areas of trauma, abuse, or neglect that you could have 329 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:47,639 experienced before the age of 18, because something that I think we don't often 330 00:17:47,639 --> 00:17:51,240 think about is how our past trauma. 331 00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:55,650 Impact us in present day, not a conscious process. 332 00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:59,760 We don't wake up in the morning and decide that that's what's going to happen. 333 00:17:59,765 --> 00:18:02,070 But you know, as Dr. 334 00:18:02,075 --> 00:18:05,340 Vander Kolk wrote, the body keeps the score right. 335 00:18:05,745 --> 00:18:06,915 And so that's true. 336 00:18:06,915 --> 00:18:11,715 So what oftentimes ends up happening with, I'll use therapists as an example. 337 00:18:11,715 --> 00:18:13,815 I present most often to therapists. 338 00:18:14,145 --> 00:18:19,035 You may be sitting in a session with a client and they are recounting a 339 00:18:19,035 --> 00:18:24,135 story to you of something from their childhood, let's call it abuse. 340 00:18:24,465 --> 00:18:28,515 And their abuse story is very similar to your abuse story. 341 00:18:29,235 --> 00:18:31,695 What's happening in your nervous system? 342 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:37,200 Is your body is going into fight, flight, or freeze, not because you 343 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,830 want it to, but because you have painful past learning around that. 344 00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:44,040 You've got your past traumas coming into play. 345 00:18:44,550 --> 00:18:50,280 And so when you are doing caregiving work in a body that's in panic mode, 346 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:54,720 you are retraumatizing yourself through the act of doing the work that you. 347 00:18:55,215 --> 00:19:01,665 So the first part is to recognize and acknowledge that we all bring things 348 00:19:01,725 --> 00:19:03,885 into our caregiving work with us. 349 00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:10,034 All of us, every single one of us has had painful past learning around something. 350 00:19:10,334 --> 00:19:12,794 Maybe it's perfectionism from childhood. 351 00:19:12,794 --> 00:19:17,054 Maybe it was some kind of abuse, maybe it was some kind of medical. 352 00:19:18,014 --> 00:19:22,215 And also there are things that happen after the age of 18 as well. 353 00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:25,845 The ACEs captures things before the age of 18, but those traumas 354 00:19:25,845 --> 00:19:27,195 compound upon themselves. 355 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,785 And the more traumas that you experience, the likelier, it is that in any given 356 00:19:31,785 --> 00:19:36,105 situation, your nervous system is responding with fight, flight, or freeze. 357 00:19:36,764 --> 00:19:41,415 So the key to this is self-regulation, and if listeners are not 358 00:19:41,415 --> 00:19:42,945 familiar with the work of Dr. 359 00:19:42,945 --> 00:19:46,335 Eric Gentry, it's e r i. 360 00:19:47,985 --> 00:19:54,345 G E N T R Y cannot recommend his work highly enough. 361 00:19:54,795 --> 00:19:57,495 That's who I've done the bulk of my trauma training with. 362 00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:59,835 That's who I did my compassion fatigue training with. 363 00:20:00,285 --> 00:20:03,135 He's been researching this for over 25 years. 364 00:20:03,135 --> 00:20:07,995 His most recent publication is Forward Facing Professional Resilience. 365 00:20:08,595 --> 00:20:12,765 It's prevention and resolution of burnout, toxic stress and compassion. 366 00:20:13,845 --> 00:20:18,705 And what he does is he, he walks you through the process of being 367 00:20:18,705 --> 00:20:22,455 able to recognize when is your stress response initiating? 368 00:20:22,695 --> 00:20:23,625 So think about it. 369 00:20:23,685 --> 00:20:26,265 Think about a situation that makes you stressed out. 370 00:20:26,270 --> 00:20:27,495 I'll give you one example. 371 00:20:27,825 --> 00:20:29,355 You're running late, right? 372 00:20:29,505 --> 00:20:32,235 We're trying to get the kids out of the house for school. 373 00:20:32,835 --> 00:20:36,315 Somebody spills orange juice all over the floor of the kitchen. 374 00:20:36,705 --> 00:20:41,985 So the dog is now going crazy and you decided to wear a white shirt that 375 00:20:41,985 --> 00:20:46,605 day, , which in hindsight was a horrible idea cuz now you spilled your coffee 376 00:20:46,754 --> 00:20:48,435 all down the front of your shirt, right? 377 00:20:49,545 --> 00:20:53,955 I think that for most people that would initiate a stress response for them. 378 00:20:54,419 --> 00:20:58,139 My guess is that what would probably happen is your muscles would tense up. 379 00:20:58,139 --> 00:21:00,030 You would probably yell at your child. 380 00:21:00,030 --> 00:21:05,280 You would probably yell at the dog, and now you're running around in in panic mode 381 00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:07,620 and not nothing seems to be getting done. 382 00:21:07,620 --> 00:21:09,179 You're running but getting nowhere. 383 00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:09,689 Right? 384 00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:10,949 Super common. 385 00:21:10,955 --> 00:21:12,000 Everyday response. 386 00:21:12,750 --> 00:21:13,379 Is that life. 387 00:21:13,385 --> 00:21:14,280 Life-threatening though? 388 00:21:14,909 --> 00:21:18,389 It's not life-threatening, it is inconvenient. 389 00:21:18,419 --> 00:21:19,590 It is annoying. 390 00:21:19,770 --> 00:21:22,110 It is something you wish had not happened. 391 00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:25,770 But it's not actually life-threatening in that present moment. 392 00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:30,480 And if it's not life-threatening in that present moment, you 393 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,400 don't need your panic response. 394 00:21:32,970 --> 00:21:36,540 And so you can break your universe down into two categories. 395 00:21:36,780 --> 00:21:41,850 It's either a real threat, which means you are literally about to die, 396 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:48,990 or it's a perceived threat, and the bulk of your universe is perceived. 397 00:21:50,175 --> 00:21:54,705 The reason that we respond in situations like this one with, you know, my, my 398 00:21:54,705 --> 00:22:00,345 frantic mourning example, the reason that we respond with our panic mode is you have 399 00:22:00,345 --> 00:22:02,355 painful past learning around being late. 400 00:22:03,195 --> 00:22:07,725 Something happened to you somewhere along the way that where your nervous system 401 00:22:07,725 --> 00:22:12,835 learned that you being late leads to bad things happening, and so you're panicking. 402 00:22:13,485 --> 00:22:18,615 But if you take a step back, you can actually teach your nervous system how to 403 00:22:18,615 --> 00:22:24,795 process things through the lens of is it a real threat or is it a perceived threat? 404 00:22:25,275 --> 00:22:28,185 And then the next step is relaxing into your body. 405 00:22:28,455 --> 00:22:31,575 So there's a few different body relaxation techniques you can use. 406 00:22:31,575 --> 00:22:33,065 They take five seconds. 407 00:22:33,435 --> 00:22:35,535 That's all you need to reset your system. 408 00:22:35,865 --> 00:22:40,545 As soon as you feel your muscles tense up, you can do a really quick body. 409 00:22:41,475 --> 00:22:45,495 Become aware of where your muscles are tense and just try 410 00:22:45,495 --> 00:22:47,655 to soften them, let them go. 411 00:22:48,195 --> 00:22:53,775 In my situation that I made up, as annoyed as you are, you are also not 412 00:22:53,775 --> 00:22:55,815 an immediate life threatening danger. 413 00:22:56,385 --> 00:23:02,235 You can relax into your body and if you relax into your body, 414 00:23:02,504 --> 00:23:04,035 a few things are gonna happen. 415 00:23:04,605 --> 00:23:07,185 You're not gonna yell at your kid, cuz you and I both know you're gonna 416 00:23:07,185 --> 00:23:08,835 regret it when you yell at your kid. 417 00:23:09,254 --> 00:23:10,725 You're not gonna yell at your dog. 418 00:23:11,205 --> 00:23:15,225 Feel worse all sometimes when you yell at the dog, the faces that they make. 419 00:23:15,765 --> 00:23:19,245 But what's gonna happen is you're gonna regulate and then you're gonna have, 420 00:23:19,605 --> 00:23:25,005 you're gonna have the words to say to your child, let's get 'em up and let's go. 421 00:23:25,005 --> 00:23:26,265 Go grab the paper towels. 422 00:23:26,265 --> 00:23:27,285 We need to clean this up. 423 00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:29,055 We're already running late for school. 424 00:23:29,535 --> 00:23:32,265 And when you walk away from that situation, you're not going to 425 00:23:32,265 --> 00:23:33,915 regret the way that you behaved. 426 00:23:35,115 --> 00:23:39,105 It comes down to your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. 427 00:23:39,435 --> 00:23:42,985 Your sympathetic nervous system controls those automatic responses. 428 00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:45,975 You don't think about moving your hand away from a hot stove, right? 429 00:23:46,545 --> 00:23:50,745 Most of us spend a lot of time with our sympathetic nervous system making hard 430 00:23:50,745 --> 00:23:55,695 decisions, but if you can regulate, you can let your parasympathetic nervous 431 00:23:55,695 --> 00:23:57,825 system make your decisions for you. 432 00:23:58,230 --> 00:24:00,510 And what ends up happening is you have better relationships 433 00:24:00,510 --> 00:24:01,680 with everybody in your life. 434 00:24:01,950 --> 00:24:02,220 Yeah. 435 00:24:02,820 --> 00:24:06,660 Because if you don't yell at your child in that moment and you get 436 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:08,730 yourself into a relaxed body, maybe. 437 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,830 Maybe they even see you take a deep breath. 438 00:24:11,310 --> 00:24:13,590 You are showing them how to regulate. 439 00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:15,820 What a wonderful gift is that. 440 00:24:16,980 --> 00:24:21,030 We don't oftentimes teach our kids how to do these things, but you 441 00:24:21,035 --> 00:24:23,160 can absolutely model for them. 442 00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:27,000 And what ends up happening is you're gonna build better, healthier 443 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,820 relationships, not just with your kids, but with your romantic 444 00:24:30,825 --> 00:24:35,550 partners, with your friends, with your coworkers, pretty much with everybody. 445 00:24:37,230 --> 00:24:42,750 John Cordray: And I think that's so important because when we react and 446 00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:45,360 we're reacting to a situation and. 447 00:24:46,125 --> 00:24:48,825 The little hypothetical explanation there. 448 00:24:49,005 --> 00:24:54,405 The scenario, I could just envision it because I've had things like that happen. 449 00:24:54,645 --> 00:24:56,775 It just felt like Murphy's Law all day. 450 00:24:57,225 --> 00:25:03,315 That always had to happen, and I definitely had my levels of stress go 451 00:25:03,315 --> 00:25:06,495 up and I could just feel it in my body. 452 00:25:07,155 --> 00:25:08,325 But you're exactly right. 453 00:25:08,745 --> 00:25:12,195 Basically what you're saying is we need to slow everything down. 454 00:25:12,860 --> 00:25:17,340 Be mindful of how we're feeling in our body because when we tense up, it's 455 00:25:17,340 --> 00:25:23,639 going to show up in our body and to be focused and really focus on our breath. 456 00:25:24,180 --> 00:25:28,169 So there's breathing different types of breathing exercises you can do. 457 00:25:28,649 --> 00:25:34,050 There's specific grounding exercises, so it's about slowing down and being mindful. 458 00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:34,350 Mm-hmm. 459 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:40,560 . And I think that is so important when we, a lot of us are rushing around. 460 00:25:41,070 --> 00:25:41,370 Every 461 00:25:41,370 --> 00:25:41,640 Natasha D'Arcangelo: day. 462 00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:42,300 Yeah. 463 00:25:42,810 --> 00:25:46,470 Well, and you know, the other thing is so many of us spend so much 464 00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:49,020 time disconnected from our bodies. 465 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,990 You know, we're busy and we have a lot of things going on. 466 00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:55,070 I mean, have you, have you ever driven home and you pulled into your driveway? 467 00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:56,730 You have no idea how you got there. 468 00:25:56,850 --> 00:25:56,940 Right. 469 00:25:57,690 --> 00:25:58,260 There you are. 470 00:25:58,260 --> 00:26:00,000 You're disconnected from your body. 471 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:05,250 And so if we start paying attention to what's happening, lemme tell you. 472 00:26:05,250 --> 00:26:07,710 Your body knows what's going on. 473 00:26:07,710 --> 00:26:10,830 Your nervous system is sending up your, your oil change. 474 00:26:10,830 --> 00:26:12,090 Light is on. 475 00:26:12,540 --> 00:26:12,570 Okay. 476 00:26:13,325 --> 00:26:16,925 Your, your body's letting you know what's happening, but we get so 477 00:26:16,925 --> 00:26:18,635 good at ignoring those messages. 478 00:26:18,935 --> 00:26:21,005 I'm too busy, I don't have time. 479 00:26:21,125 --> 00:26:21,545 Right. 480 00:26:21,845 --> 00:26:27,905 But if you can just take it, the whole process takes less than five seconds. 481 00:26:27,905 --> 00:26:31,115 I mean, you know, no more than 10 seconds at a maximum. 482 00:26:31,445 --> 00:26:34,455 So in that moment you recognize, Ooh, I just 10. 483 00:26:35,024 --> 00:26:40,814 Or I just had this rush of rage go through my body or my heart just started pounding. 484 00:26:41,115 --> 00:26:43,695 Those are some of the warning signs your body sends you. 485 00:26:43,965 --> 00:26:45,705 You can recognize, you know what though? 486 00:26:45,705 --> 00:26:46,965 This is a perceived threat. 487 00:26:47,085 --> 00:26:49,845 I am not in immediate life threatening danger. 488 00:26:50,564 --> 00:26:53,865 And then you relax the muscles of your body and you can 489 00:26:54,185 --> 00:26:57,615 switch over out of panic mode. 490 00:26:58,004 --> 00:27:01,995 And be much better able to handle whatever situation you are in. 491 00:27:02,264 --> 00:27:03,995 And now it does take practice. 492 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,935 Here's the thing, it's not gonna happen the first time because for 493 00:27:08,155 --> 00:27:11,565 a lot of people, the clients that I work with, I'm asking them to 494 00:27:11,570 --> 00:27:15,615 undo 20, 30, 40 years of learning. 495 00:27:15,615 --> 00:27:15,705 Right? 496 00:27:16,155 --> 00:27:16,635 Right. 497 00:27:17,625 --> 00:27:22,925 If you've got extensive trauma, going back to your childhood, You've probably 498 00:27:22,930 --> 00:27:28,875 been in panic mode for the last 40 years, , you know, and, and I come along and I'm 499 00:27:28,875 --> 00:27:30,945 like, you need to relax into your body. 500 00:27:30,965 --> 00:27:34,274 And, and, and most of my clients look at me panicky, like, oh, no, 501 00:27:34,335 --> 00:27:36,405 no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 502 00:27:36,405 --> 00:27:40,125 That is not the answer here, you know, but it's true. 503 00:27:40,129 --> 00:27:46,995 And what happens is when you regulate and when you start regulating more often, You 504 00:27:46,995 --> 00:27:53,835 end up feeling so much more comfortable because your body is a wonderful thing. 505 00:27:54,165 --> 00:27:57,435 It also was not designed to be in panic mode all the time. 506 00:27:57,855 --> 00:28:01,485 You know, we literally are not built to do that, right? 507 00:28:02,115 --> 00:28:06,764 And so if you can give your nervous system a little bit of a break, you can see that 508 00:28:06,764 --> 00:28:08,415 there's a different way of doing things. 509 00:28:10,455 --> 00:28:11,205 John Cordray: I love that. 510 00:28:11,655 --> 00:28:12,315 I love that. 511 00:28:12,585 --> 00:28:18,465 So thank you so much for just helping us learn to identify and also manage 512 00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:22,425 the compassion fatigue, not just for the professionals, but for really 513 00:28:22,425 --> 00:28:25,065 anyone who is caring for our loved one. 514 00:28:25,070 --> 00:28:29,695 It's hard work and we want to acknowledge that, and we want to, sometimes 515 00:28:29,955 --> 00:28:34,125 we, we do the hard work for others and there's not much acknowledge. 516 00:28:35,385 --> 00:28:38,985 And so I, I want to acknowledge that you are working hard. 517 00:28:39,014 --> 00:28:40,304 Thank you for what you're doing. 518 00:28:40,304 --> 00:28:42,254 If you're caring for a loved one, thank you. 519 00:28:42,645 --> 00:28:46,274 If you're a professional and you're caring for a lot of people, thank you. 520 00:28:46,965 --> 00:28:49,635 And sometimes we just need to hear that. 521 00:28:49,635 --> 00:28:51,135 And that can make a big difference too. 522 00:28:51,735 --> 00:28:52,695 Natasha D'Arcangelo: Oh, absolutely. 523 00:28:52,965 --> 00:28:55,725 Support also is so huge. 524 00:28:56,264 --> 00:28:59,985 I just presented at the Myositis Conference last week. 525 00:28:59,985 --> 00:29:01,544 It happened here in Orlando. 526 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,650 I encouraged everybody in the room to connect with somebody 527 00:29:05,655 --> 00:29:08,460 else in the room because I was in a room full of caregivers. 528 00:29:09,030 --> 00:29:13,650 Nobody else is gonna get it the way that the folks that are doing the same 529 00:29:13,655 --> 00:29:19,200 thing get it right, and it's okay for you to have that connection with other 530 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,710 people, you know, maybe take today as a jumping off point, do a little bit 531 00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:27,360 of looking into compassion fatigue and talk to somebody about it, you know? 532 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:32,130 You can be each other's kind of gauges, Hey, I've noticed you've been feeling 533 00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:37,080 a little bit more irritable lately, or you seem extra tired, you know, just 534 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,730 wanted to check in what's going on. 535 00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:40,560 We all need that. 536 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,300 No, nobody else gets it The way that other people that are doing what you do get it. 537 00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:45,810 Right. 538 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,460 John Cordray: Been there and done that. 539 00:29:47,460 --> 00:29:48,840 That's exactly right. 540 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,330 Well, one last question I want to ask you here in a moment. 541 00:29:54,794 --> 00:29:58,395 But before I get to that, I know there might be some people that are 542 00:29:58,395 --> 00:30:02,534 interested in maybe reaching out to you, and I know you are in the process 543 00:30:02,540 --> 00:30:04,935 of making your, creating your website. 544 00:30:05,235 --> 00:30:08,774 And what would be, if someone's listening to this, the best 545 00:30:08,774 --> 00:30:10,395 way to reach out to you, you 546 00:30:10,395 --> 00:30:12,915 Natasha D'Arcangelo: are more than welcome to reach out to me on LinkedIn. 547 00:30:13,304 --> 00:30:20,054 I am at Natasha Dark Angello, so it's d apostrophe a r c. 548 00:30:20,564 --> 00:30:22,814 A N G E L O. 549 00:30:22,814 --> 00:30:26,726 Feel free to send me a message if you've got any further questions or 550 00:30:26,731 --> 00:30:31,004 if I mentioned a resource that went by too quickly, or if you're interested 551 00:30:31,004 --> 00:30:35,625 in having me present, you know, more than happy to get the word out about 552 00:30:35,629 --> 00:30:37,274 compassion fatigue and burnout. 553 00:30:37,725 --> 00:30:38,264 John Cordray: Excellent. 554 00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:42,375 And I'll will, I will put your LinkedIn info in the show notes as. 555 00:30:43,455 --> 00:30:44,805 So let's make it easy. 556 00:30:44,895 --> 00:30:45,315 Haha. 557 00:30:45,675 --> 00:30:46,065 Alright. 558 00:30:46,125 --> 00:30:48,285 Getting to my question, Natasha. 559 00:30:48,315 --> 00:30:52,035 One of the questions I like to ask all of my guests and it goes right 560 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,235 along with what we're talking about. 561 00:30:53,895 --> 00:30:55,695 I talk a lot about self-care. 562 00:30:56,175 --> 00:31:00,345 I'm curious to know what are a few things that you do for your self-care? 563 00:31:00,705 --> 00:31:01,305 Oh, love 564 00:31:01,305 --> 00:31:02,025 Natasha D'Arcangelo: this question. 565 00:31:02,025 --> 00:31:04,185 So I self-regulate. 566 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:10,080 Once I started learning how to do this stuff, I started self-regulating. 567 00:31:10,170 --> 00:31:11,280 I do it every day. 568 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,440 Some days I am better at it than others, but I am much better able to differentiate 569 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,820 now, when am I in a real threat and when am I in a perceived threat? 570 00:31:21,210 --> 00:31:24,900 And then I relax into my body and it has made the work that 571 00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:27,240 I do so much more enjoyable. 572 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,400 I'm not exhausted all the time anymore. 573 00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:31,560 And that's made a huge difference. 574 00:31:31,950 --> 00:31:36,060 And what that has allowed me to do is give me enough energy to 575 00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:38,850 do things like I like to color. 576 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:40,800 Coloring is one of my go-tos. 577 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:47,720 I also have a therapy dog and Celeste and I go around Orlando and we actually 578 00:31:47,725 --> 00:31:50,130 were at a local hospital on Wednesday. 579 00:31:50,670 --> 00:31:56,940 And I get so much fulfillment from being able to share her joy with other folks 580 00:31:57,390 --> 00:32:01,920 and just seeing how she's a little 10 pound maloo and I, I may be biased, but 581 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,840 she's the cutest dog in the universe. 582 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,500 And, and just to see the look on their faces when I knock on 583 00:32:07,505 --> 00:32:10,500 the door and say, Hey, do you wanna visit from the therapy dog? 584 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,260 I mean, that just, it just feeds my. 585 00:32:14,220 --> 00:32:18,960 So those are some of my, some of my coping skills that, that I really, you 586 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:24,240 know, I regulate every day, some days better than others, and I love to 587 00:32:24,245 --> 00:32:29,850 color and, you know, sharing Celeste, the therapy dog with the world also 588 00:32:29,970 --> 00:32:31,680 is another good self-care thing 589 00:32:31,685 --> 00:32:31,940 John Cordray: for me. 590 00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:32,340 Wow. 591 00:32:32,580 --> 00:32:33,810 That sounds fantastic. 592 00:32:33,810 --> 00:32:35,940 Thank you for sharing those with us. 593 00:32:36,375 --> 00:32:40,725 So I'm gonna let you go here, but just wanna thank you so much for 594 00:32:40,725 --> 00:32:45,255 coming on, taking the time and, and telling us what you do, and I can tell 595 00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:47,115 you're very passionate about this. 596 00:32:47,145 --> 00:32:47,355 Yes, 597 00:32:47,865 --> 00:32:48,735 Natasha D'Arcangelo: absolutely. 598 00:32:48,735 --> 00:32:53,775 I just, I feel like so many caregivers walk around, you know, feeling burned out 599 00:32:53,780 --> 00:32:55,875 and questioning if they just need to quit. 600 00:32:55,935 --> 00:32:57,195 And you don't, you don't. 601 00:32:57,225 --> 00:32:58,605 There's another way of doing this. 602 00:32:58,605 --> 00:33:01,605 We don't have to get burned out by the work that we do, and it's 603 00:33:01,605 --> 00:33:02,865 all the caregivers out there. 604 00:33:02,865 --> 00:33:04,365 We need you, we need. 605 00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:07,980 And so please make sure that you're taking care of you. 606 00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:12,150 If nothing else comes of this, take the day as, as the sign that you 607 00:33:12,150 --> 00:33:15,300 were waiting for, that you need to be taking better care of you. 608 00:33:15,420 --> 00:33:16,620 John Cordray: Yes, that's right. 609 00:33:16,620 --> 00:33:17,700 Well, thank you for coming 610 00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:17,940 Natasha D'Arcangelo: on. 611 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:18,930 Absolutely. 612 00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:19,920 Thanks for having me. 613 00:33:19,950 --> 00:33:20,400 You're 614 00:33:20,580 --> 00:33:21,150 John Cordray: welcome. 615 00:33:21,150 --> 00:33:22,050 You're very welcome. 616 00:33:22,050 --> 00:33:25,320 And I want to thank all of you for listening and spending some time, 617 00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:27,090 whatever you're doing, wherever you're at. 618 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,010 I appreciate you so, so much. 619 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,820 And I want you to continue to work on your mental health, whatever that looks. 620 00:33:34,665 --> 00:33:38,025 And I always wanna encourage you to do at least 1% more 621 00:33:38,025 --> 00:33:40,155 today than you did yesterday. 622 00:33:41,445 --> 00:33:44,775 Well, that's all today, and I want to remind you that the Mental Health 623 00:33:44,775 --> 00:33:49,515 Today Show has been championing your mental health since 2015. 624 00:33:50,115 --> 00:33:51,135 Take care of my friends. 625 00:33:51,825 --> 00:33:51,835 Bye-bye.